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 Post subject: Test results
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 7:53 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 22, 2005 2:06 pm
Posts: 365
Location: French River, ON
Nabuil
Please post your personal test results that verify or refute Stephen's claims.


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 Post subject: Re: Brilliant
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:00 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:03 pm
Posts: 5330
Location: home of the Marshville Festival, Ontario, Canada
I wondered how long it would take for "razzle-dazzle" Ross to show up and try to stir up the embers.

RossB wrote:
Stephen posts some facts and actual test results and gets called "dumbass", "liar", "horses posterior" and "arse" by responders on this forum.
Stephen, offended at the "anal fixated" name calling by these bum chums, responds in kind with a watered down version.

I think that this part has already been adequately covered - once again you have totally confused facts with your own "reality".

RossB wrote:
Stephen posts additional, apparently factual, results from credible UK third parties such as John Bowkett, T L Robb and John Knibbs as well as his own factual modifications and results.

"Apparently factual" ???? And you base this on what? Stephan quoted Cardew as well, and did so entirely WRONG. I provided the the book details, and page numbers - look it up for yourself. Stephen is a subscriber to the RossB "razzle-dazzle" school of name dropping - drop a few high profile names, and you have instant "credibility".

RossB wrote:
The forum bans him from posting.
Do not attempt to confuse forum members with the facts when their minds are closed.

Stepen was banned because he could not restrain his foul mouth - when his bluff was called, he resorted to name calling - not a generally accepted tactic in any "civil" debate.

RossB wrote:
Perhaps Suprmatic could cut and paste a posting from the vintage airgun forum.
A LeonardJ on that forum was undiplomatically criticized for modding a FWB300.
LeonardJ admonished the poster by pointing out that "we are all gentlemen on this forum".
He was supported by his buddy Keyrigger.

Ross - you must be a politician (OMG, I said the "P" word !!!)
I'd be happy to look up those posts on the AVA forum, and post them here. For starters, that poster "GreyH" (IIRC), has been banned on virtually every forum which he had turned up on for his rude, obnoxious, and inciteful behavior. His conduct and foul mouth got him booted - nothing more - my stating that we were "all gentlemen" was a rather nice way of telling him that his obnoxious behavior would not be tolerated there, just as Stephens's behavior was not tolerated here. Also, in the post that you allude to, your command of the English language once again eludes you, because Keyrigger was responding to insults hurled at him, in another one of "GreyH's" inciteful posts, that was deleted by the forum owner.

Ross, it seems you have no concept of the difference between fact and fiction. When evidence is presented, you choose to ignore it, accepting "apparently factual" information instead. Did you miss the pic of the piston that I posted, showing the wear marks from the cocking shoe? There clearly IS NOT the clearance that Stepen stated. However - that is apparently not "factual" enough for you to comprehend.

Post script: The thread on the AVA that Ross cited. I make no secret of the fact that I use the screen names "leonardj" and "Suprmatic".
http://www.network54.com/Forum/405945/t ... 3B%26gt%3B


Last edited by Suprmatic on Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:39 pm, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Test results
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:03 pm
Posts: 5330
Location: home of the Marshville Festival, Ontario, Canada
RossB wrote:
Nabuil
Please post your personal test results that verify or refute Stephen's claims.

Well, Ross - how about you post YOUR personal test results that verify the points that you choose to argue as being "apparently factual"??

I posted pics of a Webley Senior piston to refute Stephen's claim, yet here you are arguing the point - to what end? Why should anyone irrepairably damage their own gun to refute a fictional claim - for your benefit?

Stephen said of the test results of others:
Stephen wrote:
Now theres some bull litter if ive ever heard it.


But of course, of his own "razzle-dazzle" he states:
Stehen wrote:
.....atleast i speak the truth!


Your writing style, and that of Stephen are SO similar - make some claims, call them fact, drop a few high profile names, maybe a mis-quote or two, toss in a bunch of unrelated tripe, shake or stir, and spew with total disregard to the consequences of those that do not recognize it for the worthless nonsense that it is.


Last edited by Suprmatic on Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 8:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:44 am
Posts: 164
Location: Iraq, lol
Well I finally managed to get my 2240 to shoot over 850 fps - what I did was mix some gunpowder and gasoline into a paste and put it into the breech but left the breech partially open. Upon ignition with a BBQ lighter that pellet cronyed at 856 fps!

The only problem I have is that I haven't been able to duplicate that speed and my 2240 is presently in stealth mode...it doesn't even look like a 2240 anymore :(

Well the really good news is that the doctor says I will be out of the hospital in a week or so but my piano playing days are over and that's a fact :)

p


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:04 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:03 pm
Posts: 5330
Location: home of the Marshville Festival, Ontario, Canada
palo wrote:
Well I finally managed to get my 2240 to shoot over 850 fps - what I did was mix some gunpowder and gasoline into a paste and put it into the breech but left the breech partially open. Upon ignition with a BBQ lighter that pellet cronyed at 856 fps!

The only problem I have is that I haven't been able to duplicate that speed and my 2240 is presently in stealth mode...it doesn't even look like a 2240 anymore :(

Well the really good news is that the doctor says I will be out of the hospital in a week or so but my piano playing days are over and that's a fact :)

p

I appreciate the humour in your post. :wink: :lol:

Unfortunately, a guy like RossB :roll: might actually take it seriously due to the "apparently factual" information presented, and go to other airgun forums promoting the idea as a viable 2240 modification - but, leaving out the last two key statements:
Quote:
The only problem I have is that I haven't been able to duplicate that speed and my 2240 is presently in stealth mode...it doesn't even look like a 2240 anymore :(

Well the really good news is that the doctor says I will be out of the hospital in a week or so but my piano playing days are over and that's a fact :)

They would not support his agenda at all !! :lol:
BTW, some folks have actually learned to play piano with their toes, so all hope is not lost. :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Test results
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2007 9:21 pm 
RossB wrote:
Nabuil
Please post your personal test results that verify or refute Stephen's claims.


I never tried to disprove his claims about the 2mm gap giving 60 more fps or whatever. It may be actual fact that the webly senior's chamber can achieve it's optimum performance with the 2mm, but this does not apply to all airguns which is what this guy was touting as fact. I am just showing the flaws in his logic and half assed explanation of why this actually happens, ie he doesn't really know. He even said it himself, he pulled it out of a book.

So don't go shaving 2mm off of every piston you see just because it might work on the webly senior to increase fps.

Also I don't know why you're asking me for proof, its not like Stephen provided any to begin with at all.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 12:29 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:31 pm
Posts: 480
Location: Worcester in United Kingdom.
Look, ive been allowed back in, and will apologize for attacking Suprmatic.
I guess the worst just comes out in me when someone starts suggesting i am telling lies.

Incidently Ross isnt me.
Well atleast not while he has been posting, while i have been banned he isnt!

I realize that Suprmatic is a great collector of vintage weapons (great taste) and has many years experience but we cannot be masters of everthing in this field.
Quite simply, Suprmatic disagrees with modding old vintage weapons, thus, has not the experience of having tried these mods!!!!!
I respect Suprmatics move to not mofiy these (and anyone elses) but i chose to do it owing to the vast stock of these guns available over here at the time....like i said 10 a penny, and not quite so respecting of them as you Canadian boys i guess.

Suprmatics measurements of his Senior piston are excellent, with great pictorals which i enjoyed looking at but sadly have no bearing on the cocking stirrup rest point, which is 5mm clear of the crash up point!
The simplest answer is for someone to just go ahead and prove me wrong, maybe starting with a 1mm skim to play safe.
Suprmatic may have overlooked the double wammy effect of increased volume, and stroke length that this mod offers.
Do not forget, that we not only created slightly more Stroke but also removed the lost volume of having a piston seal set back 3.8mm up the piston!!

Best wishes and apologese,
Steve


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:27 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 26, 2007 9:44 am
Posts: 164
Location: Iraq, lol
First off, welcome back!

Second, don't apologise...pooh happens

Third, stop trying to be right (or wrong) just get over it and move on

p


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 Post subject: No Problem
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 3:36 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:31 pm
Posts: 480
Location: Worcester in United Kingdom.
Ok,

If you ever need any modding advice with these guns just ask here or PM me.
S.


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 Post subject: Re: Strength of material
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:10 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:47 pm
Posts: 1726
Location: canada
Stephen wrote:
...despite what "old windbag" is telling you...


All my younger colleagues are pointing out the increasing number of grey hairs growing out of my head and I'm starting to become sensitive about my age...and now I have to put up with some chap across the pond trying to pick a fight with me?! Listen mate! I never even got involved in your precious little debate so leave me out of it! :evil:

:lol: ...couldn't keep a straight face... :lol:


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 Post subject: Windbag
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 4:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:31 pm
Posts: 480
Location: Worcester in United Kingdom.
Jeeez mate...sorry, i never even knew their was a real windbag on here.

I levelled the term (inexcusably) during heated debate with Suprmatic just before getting banned.

Windbag may be an unfortuant name however, what about wind power or something?
S.


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 Post subject: Re: Windbag
PostPosted: Thu Sep 27, 2007 6:02 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2006 12:47 pm
Posts: 1726
Location: canada
Stephen wrote:
Jeeez mate...sorry, i never even knew their was a real windbag on here.


That's okay, I was only trying to add some levity to the thread :P

Windpower...hmmm, that has a catchiness to it... 8)


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PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:25 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:03 pm
Posts: 5330
Location: home of the Marshville Festival, Ontario, Canada
Stephen wrote:
I realize that Suprmatic is a great collector of vintage weapons (great taste) and has many years experience but we cannot be masters of everthing in this field.

Agreed - on all points - but still working on the latter - lol.

Stephen wrote:
Quite simply, Suprmatic disagrees with modding old vintage weapons, thus, has not the experience of having tried these mods!!!!!

Once again, I will reiterate - I DO in fact mod vintage, beater, airguns - I have modded many different models, by many different manufacturers, utilizing many different powerplant designs.

Stephen wrote:
Suprmatic may have overlooked the double wammy effect of increased volume, and stroke length that this mod offers.
Do not forget, that we not only created slightly more Stroke but also removed the lost volume of having a piston seal set back 3.8mm up the piston!!

I have examined a great number of different spring guns in great detail, and have found from my own experiments, that there is often more involved in the equation than just "increased volume, and stroke length". Take this comparison for example:
http://www.airgunforum.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?t=16103
By your definition, the Predom pistol, with a 6.4mm longer stroke, with a near identical bore diameter, should be substantially more powerful than the LP53. Note also that the stock LP53 piston head seals about 1.5 mm back from the face of the piston, whereas the Predom seals right at the front face of the piston. So, I respectfully pose to you the question - why is it that these two guns shoot at around the same power level, when the gun with the greater swept volume, the sealing surface right at the front of the piston, and even a lighter piston, should, according to your explanation, shoot at substantially higher velocity?
Point of note - I have managed through experimentation to coax higher than advertised velocity from the LP53, but have not been able to do so with the Predom, utilizing identical procedures for both guns. How would you explain this?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 11:03 pm
Posts: 5330
Location: home of the Marshville Festival, Ontario, Canada
palo wrote:
Third, stop trying to be right (or wrong) just get over it and move on
p

There is nothing wrong with dissenting dialogue, or even open debate - provided it is carried on in a respectful, and civil manner, and presenting objective, and logical evidence. Often a "brainstorming session" can result in all concerned learning something beneficial. All part of the learning curve.


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 Post subject: Reply for Suprmatic
PostPosted: Fri Sep 28, 2007 10:52 am 
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Joined: Thu Dec 21, 2006 3:31 pm
Posts: 480
Location: Worcester in United Kingdom.
Supe,
You are correct about the Walther and Predom!

Somtimes things just do not go how one might expect with guns.
In this case, it could be that the maximum efficiency (in stroke and compression terms) is reached at the Walthers length of stroke....where anymore (shorter piston etc) when married with a different mainspring strength ratio, will gain nothing.
My own tests on these guns, has returned slightly more for Predoms but only about 20fps so your point here is good.

Who can explain why the old Meteor delivers almost 11ftlbs (from about 9.5ftlbs) with the simple reduction of 1.5mm of stroke.
To get the answer, i would need to test down to the scientific level, with tools unavailable to me but i would guess that its peak is not achieved in the BSA design, like what the Walther might.
Its all about the balance, and one thing that works for one design, may not work for another.

We may have got off on the wrong foot but i just hope you can accept a rival expert (i guess its hard for both of us)
Also, regarding old Webleys, these are no more important to me (here in England) than what your old American classics are over there.
With boys on here, modifying these things all the time, if you see what i am saying.
Indeed, i have never seen a MK1 Crosman or a 600, and would not modify one if had one.

Hoping for your understanding here then.
Steve


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