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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 8:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:04 pm
Posts: 841
Location: Nova Scotia
Has anyone any ideas about how I can increase the accuracy of this .22 cal air rifle? It is the under 500 fps version. I like the rifle now that I have changed the trigger making it much more enjoyable to shoot but I have tried a number of different pellets, weights and styles and can not find one that will consistently group within a dime. I thought it might be me, so I had someone else shoot the rifle and the problems continued. Even after about 1000 shots smoke still comes out the barrel when I shoot. I don't know what the manufacturer put in the compression chamber but it does like to smoke. After about 5 shots in a row the smoke is extending about 2 ft past the end of the barrel, impressive but not what I want.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 9:50 pm 
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Joined: Sat Aug 14, 2010 10:04 pm
Posts: 28
hi fellow airgunner. i have the ben np too. but the trial. when i started shooting it , it was all over the place as well . but i kept on shooting and she finally striaghtend out. i found that you need to really get to know that gun and how to shoot it . jumping from that to another will screw you up . all guns have there own temperemental sides.about the smoke . does yours have the shroud , i think so . anyway i was wondering if thats has too much oil in it . should be dry i think.dome pellets work the best . im im in morristom anyway can hook up some night to check it out.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 10:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:04 pm
Posts: 841
Location: Nova Scotia
Thanks for the reply, perhaps I just have to be persistent and keep shooting. I don't know if staying with one pellet, you like a dome pellet, will make a difference. I do shoot various air rifles because sometimes I like to hit what I am aiming at, I get a bit frustrated when I can't get a constant POI. I will try cleaning out the shroud although I doubt it would get hot enough to create smoke whereas the compression chamber can get quite warm. If I get frustrated enough I will probably either get rid of the rifle or take it apart and see if I can find an internal reason for the inconsistent shooting.
I don't recognize the name of the place where you are, I am in Northern Nova Scotia Canada.


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PostPosted: Wed Dec 22, 2010 11:29 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:09 pm
Posts: 1249
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
My Canadian Beny Trail smoked for the first few hundred rounds, but I als stored mine upside down (on the muzzle) for the first week, hoping any fluids would drain out the port. I`ve got just over 6 tins threw this gun and things are getting smoother, but I sure can get some large groups at 12 yards. Mind yu, I shoot in a modified sitting positon just starting to do bench work now that got my JSB`s . I fnd the biggest variable that is affecting my accuracy is my head positioning, I have good elevation it just mainly my windage. I did find my groups tighen up once i got away from the scope and went red dot, magnification was just magnifying my movements for to long that I was rushing the shot. Will be shooting the scopes for the bench testing, damn I love that weaver rail!

My biggest complaint on ths rifle so far is the release system, the sear or whatever. I find if I have squeezed the trigger half way or more then release, the gun is then still ready to fire. But on a hair trigger! Maybe its just me.....

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 3:51 am 
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I have the over 500fps version of this gun.

My gun started off at about 1" at 20 yards, and after about 500 rounds or so, now is down to a nice neat nickel size group at that range, and into less than 1/4" and even less if I get lucky at 10 with JSB Jumbo Match, it's favored fodder. But then again, I've never owned an airgun so far that hasn't improved it's grouping after a few hundred rounds.

As I bought this gun primarily for pesting and small game, I'm quite thrilled at 1/2 inch or so groups at 20 yards, which is about as far as I'd want to shoot a rabbit with an airgun. My gun does this with JSB Predators. I'd just advise you to keep shooting.

I've had no dieseling or such with my NP, but admittedly the trigger is lousy. However, mine is predictably lousy so I'll leave it be - I know how it creeps, it creeps that way all of the time, and I like a fairly heavy let off on a hunting gun. I don't know what it's pull weight is, but my .300 Weatherby has a 3 pound pull, and this feels about the same although sloppier.

My trigger, like the comment above by Knappr, goes half way, stops a bit then releases very positively. But it does it the same way every time. If I release the trigger after the initial creep, it goes back to the original position without a "hair" effect as described above. As it is consistent, I'll live with it.

The best pellets in this gun have been JSB Jumbo Match, JSB Predators, JSB Jumbo Match Select, and Hobbies, in that order. I've not found mine to be pellet sensitive - it even shoots Daisy's okay. I've also not found it to be hold sensitive at all. If I bench mine, the best groups come if I rest the gun fairly close to the trigger . Farther out is not quite as tight, but the difference is marginal - maybe 1/8" at 10 yards.

Here's a casual 5 shot group I shot in October, about two months after I bought the gun. This group was shot with JSB Jumbo match, at just short of 10 yards indoors, my elbows as a rest only, with a 3-9x Centerpoint scope set at 6x. Predators shoot pretty much the same, and if I do my part, the groups will go a little tighter now.

Image


I would have no hesitation in buying another NP, and am looking seriously in the future at the .177 and .25 versions. A friend of mine has the under 500fps version that you do, and it shoots about the same as mine.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:47 am 
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Location: Montreal
I also have the under 500fps version.
There's still a bit of dieseling but I'm getting pretty good groups. Maybe you could take it apart and clean it a little (or just keep shooting it)?
I did take the shroud appart but there is no oil there, it's only a cylinder screwed over the barrel, the oil is coming from the power plant.
Here is 2 pellets I tried : Image

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:41 am 
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:04 pm
Posts: 841
Location: Nova Scotia
Thanks for the replies and encouragement to keep trying this rifle. I have never had a rifle that dieseled for so long and I suspect it may not become consistent until most of the dieseling is finished. Does anyone know if it will cause damage if I overheat it by shooting. I am thinking I may have someone feed me pellets while I shoot as fast as I can. This should cause more heat in the compression chamber and with luck burn out whatever is in there, or will the seals go first?
I would be quite happy with the groups that DocGadget, and moltogordo, are getting.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 8:56 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:09 pm
Posts: 1249
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Does the exterior on the cylinder get warm? Too much will definitly do damage to seals, just not sure how heat that takes.

Just remove te red dot and remounted the OEM scope, hope to get downstairs sometime today and do some testing. Got my fingers crossed tha my results are good.

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Hatsan AT44MW-10 .177
Daisy 953S .177
Artemis CR600W .177
Diana Stormrider .177
Seneca Dragonfly MK2 .177


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:59 am 
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Put a couple drops of Silicone Chamber Oil through the transfer port- it will help dilute whatever petroleum lube is in there causing your detonation problem and allow it to burn off/drain out more quickly. The break-in times on the detuned versions do seem to be longer than on an equivalently-powered standard springer, but I have no specific evidence of 'why' this is.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 1:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 17, 2010 6:04 pm
Posts: 841
Location: Nova Scotia
Eric, I took your advice and put a couple of drops of silicone chamber oil (the genuine stuff that I got from Scopesandammo) :D in the rifle and rolled it around a bit to spread the oil. I will let it soak for a spell and the shoot to see what comes out. Hopefully this treatment will clean out whatever was installed at the factory, but I just can't understand how a rifle can smoke for so long. I have had old cars that didn't smoke this bad.


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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:37 pm 
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Location: Montreal
Watertown wrote:
I have had old cars that didn't smoke this bad.


LMAO :lol: :lol:

I guy on the pyramyd air blog took it apart and said his seemed to have been soaked in oil from the factory (he also said the piston seemed to have been hammered in place as the seal were badly damaged, his gun was the Crosman Titan GP, same as the Trail NP but with a muzzlebreak instead of the full shroud and a 4X scope instead of the 3X9 that comes with the Trail NP, at 160$ in most US walmart I almost bought one).

Doc

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 4:40 pm 
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Watertown wrote:
...but I just can't understand how a rifle can smoke for so long. I have had old cars that didn't smoke this bad.


It's possible (possible, not necessarily probable) that your particular unit had an excess amount of lube in it, or- if you noticed a significant power drop somewhere along the line, that too much initial dieseling has damaged the piston seal. See what happens with the Silicon Oil and go from there...

Doc's post above about the Titan GP- it appears that WalMart signed a deal with Crosman to have these "specialized" units produced only for them- but as history has indicated, such "special" (read that "cheap") units also tend to have a higher defect rate- Crosman doesn't put as much effort into the "half price units for big box stores" QC as it does for the regular units.

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PostPosted: Thu Dec 23, 2010 11:10 pm 
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Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Was in the basment for a bit today shot about 14 or so groups of three`s. I had three pellets in hand, JSB Jumbo Express and Jumb RS and the crosman Pointed. So far te best I`ve got is about 3\4 inch at 12 yards, wth the JSB and about 1 or so with crosman. Once in awhile I `ll get the JSB almost key holing, then the next groups I shoot ges to the dogs. Grrr

Biggest reason must be my shooting setup ( Just resting the foregrip) I`ll try again tomorrow, hoping today was just ONE OF THOSE DAYS.

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Hatsan AT44MW-10 .177
Daisy 953S .177
Artemis CR600W .177
Diana Stormrider .177
Seneca Dragonfly MK2 .177


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 9:25 am 
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Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Oh ya! Start today off with a bang, finally seen the results I`ve been wanting to acheive. Using my cheap crosmans I took a few warm up shots, the staRted shooting the JSB Jumbo RS. After shooting 6 JSBs dowm range I was shocked at what I seen. 5 pellets grouped about the size of a dime with one flier. Its goingto be a good day!

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Hatsan AT44MW-10 .177
Daisy 953S .177
Artemis CR600W .177
Diana Stormrider .177
Seneca Dragonfly MK2 .177


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:01 am 
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Sounds like you're on track now! :D

I'm finding it's important to break a gun in with lots of shots, make sure it's clean, and then, once the groups start to tighten up with "swill" pellets, have lots of tins of different fodder around to find out what it really likes.

As I've said above (and I'm hardly an expert or old hand yet) all of my 10 or so airguns I've bought since joining this forum have needed about a full tin of pellets through them before they smarten up.

Only my Daisy 853 shot well from day 1.

Keep us posted!


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