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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:14 am 
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Ive been eyeing the GSG 92 and the Tac Witness for a while.I read that the GSG 92 and Sig X5 have about the same FPS 420 and GSG has strongest blowback.I was wondering why the witness is only 320fps all thought all three were roughly the same gun.

Thanks

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:53 am 
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Where you're getting your specs? Are you quoting them from a website or from measurements that you've taken?

I have all three of those pistols but I don't recall checking their speeds but I'd have to assume that any blowback pistol would have speeds less than 400 fps. Though the valving isn't identical between pistols unless one of them is malfunctioning they should shoot at similar speeds.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 9:59 am 
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No....quotes from Replica Airguns and a few other sites....There saying 312 fps for it.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:37 am 
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Never look at "Quoted" fps..because it is to be taken with a "Large Grain of Salt".
Get your self a "FPS De-Lier"...otherwise known as a Chrony.
Then you can know for sure what the true feet per seconds and calculate your true foot pound energy.
Yes, it means to buy one.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 10:52 am 
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Quote:
Canadianguy wrote
I read that the GSG 92 and Sig X5 have about the same FPS 420


The first lesson is never believe what you read. People write lots of BS.
I have all three and chronied them with 4.5mm steel BBs 5.3gr at around 20C in a rapid fire 10 shot string and the results are like that:
1) The Sig Sauer P226X Five (KWC KMB-74AHN): Av=343.4+-14.2 (shots 1-10)(Max. 361.3/Min. 325.4fps )(2.1/1.7J)
2) The Tanfoglio Witness 1911 (KWC KMB-76AHN): Av=309.9.4+-4.3 (shots 1-10)(Max. 316.4/Min. 304.0fps)(1.5/1.4J)
3) The GSG 92 (KWC KMB-15AHKS): Av=289.3+-9.8(shots 1-10)(Max.302.5/275.4fps)(1.5/1.2J)

The Tanfoglio and GSG 92 are more or less on par. The P226 has a bit higher muzzle velocity. All these CO2 pistols are converted directly from their airsoft counterparts. The latter shoot around 370-390fps with 0.2gram (3.1gr) 6mm plastic balls. Because the airgun pistols shoot heavier projectiles (5.3gr vs. 3.1gr) so naturally their muzzle velocities are reduced by about 80-100fps because the CO2 propelling system (valves etc.) remains nearly the same as that for the airsoft pistols.
Now, why would you want to have higher velocities for those blowback pistols? They are what they are and shoot quite accurately at a distance up to say 30 feet if you do your part.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:01 am 
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I know,I just don`t quote just anything it seemed like good info....I was just Quoting more then one person using a chroni(seemed like good).....I really like the Tac Witness though. :D

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:21 am 
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Quote:
Canadianguy wrote
I know,I just don`t quote just anything it seemed like good info....I was just Quoting more then one person using a chroni(seemed like good).....I really like the Tac Witness though.


First and foremost if you read any data on the chronied muzzle velocity values you have to look at the temperature range at which the test was carried out. CO2 is sensitive to temperature and remember for a future that as a rule of thumb you can assume 2fps per 1 degF with up or down temperature. If temperature is not indicated the data could be meaningless.
Now if you like the Tanfoglio just shoot it and don’t bother if you already have one. If you don’t have it yet DO NOT buy it but instead buy the original KWC KMB-76AHN (Colt 1911). The latter does not have any white idiot-markings and as such looks much better than the Tanfoglio. You can get the KWC KMB-76AHN at Surplus IG (http://www.surplusig.com/index.php?main ... ucts_id=40) for $159.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 11:40 am 
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Thanks rav for the link...I like that one you showed another reason there isnt a dog paw stamp on it(weird)`or some big name written on it.I know there is a great love for these guns:0I do like that one,not really any writting and the colour seems a little darker to...watched the the you tube video on how to dissasemble.There a little diff to take down...intresting though.I was just asking a question because I thought the Sig was higher then what you said....not a big deal I was just curious.

They have the Tac one in that store to......cool.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 1:50 pm 
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Quote:
Canadianguy wrote
another reason there isnt a dog paw stamp on it(weird)`


Well, a bit of misunderstanding here. The pistol with a bear paw on it is not the Tanfoglio/Colt 1911 but the Blackwater 1911R2 (see my review of it in the Equipment Reviews section). It is also manufactured by KWC and is designated KWC KMB-77AHN. It is a very good replica of the Kimber Custom II Warrior .45 which is a modernized version of the venerable Colt 1911A1. The Tanfoglio/KWC KMB-76AHN is a very good replica of the original Colt 1911A1 issue 1940-45 with the grip covers original for that period.
If your financial means allow you to buy only one, I would go for the Blackwater 1911R2 (if you like a bear paw) or the KWC KMB-77AHN (no markings). It is nicer and shoots stronger than the Tanfoglio and most importantly has better accuracy at 25 feet than the Tanfoglio. You can buy the KWC KMB-77AHN at Surplus IG without any markings (no bear paw) but it is a bit more expensive ($179) than the KWC KMB-76AHN (a Tanfoglio without markings). The original Blackwater 1911R2 with a bear paw you can buy at Air Gun Source (http://www.airgunsource.com/store/index ... 58000&c=35) for $150.
If you have sufficient funds buy both of them (the KWC KMB-76AHN and KMB-77AHN) and you will never regret.


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 3:42 pm 
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+1 for the BEARwater R2, I love that gun's kick too. It kicks harder than the TFW1911 for my case, and made me wonder if my TFW's spring have worned out or not.... but ya, it's a great kicking pistol.

If you want POWER, then go for the non-blowback, that's for sure a rule of thumb. My suggestion is the Jericho 941 tested to be the most powerful BB gun in the market so far for less than $100. It shoots nearly over 500fps, which is STILL legal but super powerful.

A test here for you to see:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMVrc2zU_uk

Really scary if you put a laser on the the gun's trigger guard like me. You can see the grouping is not bad, given the power and stuff... but takes some effort to lube the trigger to be friendly to use.

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PostPosted: Sat Nov 30, 2013 4:19 pm 
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I know the differences by looking at them sorry I didn't know all the right names.I like the tac version right now...

Thanks for the update Mak!

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 10:29 am 
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If you're talking about the item in the photo, the TAC A1, proceed with caution. I've had two of them fail after putting only a few mags through them. And no, it's not the stuck bb problem these guns are notorious for. I suspect there may be a bad batch floating around. I have two of the original Tangfolio 1911's from Cybergun, and as long as I rack the slide prior to inserting the mags I've never had a problem.

Just a word to the wise...

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 1:40 pm 
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Quote:
Parky wrote
If you're talking about the item in the photo, the TAC A1, proceed with caution. I've had two of them fail after putting only a few mags through them. And no, it's not the stuck bb problem these guns are notorious for. I suspect there may be a bad batch floating around. I have two of the original Tangfolio 1911's from Cybergun, and as long as I rack the slide prior to inserting the mags I've never had a problem.
Just a word to the wise...


To prevent lots of problems:
1) Put a drop of Pellgunoil on the tip of each CO2 cartridge before piercing it.
2) Do not put more than 15 BBs into the mag.
3) Lock the slide back before inserting the mag and then release the slide.


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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 3:59 pm 
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I do the same as listed by Rav..I have a question about the trigger on the Tac one.Iv'e seen that design before is that what a custom trigger on the Tanfoglio Witness is like?

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:38 pm 
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Quote:
Canadianguy
Iv'e seen that design before is that what a custom trigger on the Tanfoglio Witness is like?


Like I said earlier the TW is a 1:1 replica of the Colt 1911A1 model 1940-45. So the trigger is exactly the same as that for the Colt 1911A1. See pics.
The tactical BB pistol above (Blackwater 1911R2 or KWC KMB-77 without a bear paw) is a replica of the Kimber Custom II which is a modern Colt 1911 with a skeletonized trigger.


Attachments:
Tanfoglio Witness 1911(3).JPG
Tanfoglio Witness 1911(3).JPG [ 39.94 KiB | Viewed 286 times ]
KWC Colt 1911A1(KMB-76)(1a).jpg
KWC Colt 1911A1(KMB-76)(1a).jpg [ 165.3 KiB | Viewed 286 times ]


Last edited by rav on Sun Dec 01, 2013 4:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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