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 Post subject: Crosman MTR77-NP review
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:23 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 01, 2016 7:47 am
Posts: 711
Location: Bradford
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No pictures as I haven't bothered to setup a new hosting account yet. Later

So anyway, I've wanted one of these rifles for awhile, strictly due to the unique design. AR15 clone. Tried to buy one from D&L but they told me it was discontinued and removed it from their website. I then picked up a used one (but essentially NIB) then a week later Cabela's starts selling them again, lol.

This particular rifle is the non-PAL Canadian version, however the full power version is identical with one exception, more later.

So after receiving it, I fired one shot and took it apart. The entire left and right side come off the rifle..a LOT of screws. This is not a gun you want to be taking apart every day. After removing the sides, it disassembles like any other Crosman break barrel.

I noticed the piston seal was slightly gouged like most of them, probably due to snagging on a sharp edge during assembly. Fixed it with some 400.

Since mine had a metal trigger, I used a GTX replacement trigger to improve things dramatically. I dont mind doing the bearing trick, but I had the trigger laying around anyway so why not.

Next i took off all the sharp edges on the receiver and compression tube area, scuffed up the piston body, and lubed it with moly paste up to the top of the seal, but not on top of it.

Speaking of the piston and gas strut...i wondered why the cocking effort was fairly high for a CAD version rifle. Turns out they use the high power strut (.390 rod dia.) in this rifle and detune by way of a hole in the piston.

I compared the piston to a few that I've removed from high power springers when de-tuning them. Overall dimensions are the same EXCEPT internally near the piston head. Looks like an extra 1/8" of material has been machined away on this piston, along with a cut for the air to pass by. The dimple where the rod end locates is the same.

Lubed the compression chamber with silicone oil and left it alone. It looked very good and I didn't feel it was worth the time to hone it

I guess you could make this in to a full power version by plugging the hole, but why bother? The cost at Cabela's for both versions is the same. Just buy the PAL one if thats what you want.

I didn't like the honeycomb internals on the plastic sides and butt stock on the rifle. Filled them up with expanding foam. It may have added about half a pound.

Although the seller in my case included the carry handle \ rear sight and front sight, they are plastic and not to my liking.

Ordered NC STAR aluminium carry handle and metal front flip up sight. i dont like the looks of an AR-15 with scope. Maybe if you had the full power version and want to try your luck at 40 or 50 yards a scope would be OK but i really dont think this is anywhere near a 50 yard rifle to be honest.

I think when i bought the GTX trigger it was 50 bucks, as are the carry handle and front sight, so lets say $150.00 in to the rifle at this point.

The storage area in the removable magazine is nice, but anything hard you put in there rattles like crazy (like the front sight adjustment tool). I'm going to take it apart and line it with something. For now, putting the sight tool and a few hundred pellets in an 18650 battery containers works fine. No rattles.

The sling mounts are plastic and cheap. Since I'm not going out on patrol with this rifle anytime soon, I dont need a 2 point sling and may just remove them.

I get very good accuracy (after some work) on my TR77 NPS rifles with the same short barrel (15" I think) and similar setup, so once I put this back together I'm hoping for good things.

There "is" some harshness on the shot cycle, I guess because it is a full power piston being used and a nicer recoil pad would have been nice. It currently just has the hard plastic butt stock cover. I dont want to replace it though for two reasons...one is it would be difficult to grind \ buff it to shape with a plastic stock and two i dont want to increase the length of pull. I like it where it is.

I did not remove the front muzzle area plastic shroud to look at the crown, but the plastic one seems fine. Unlike a video I saw online, my front sight mount does not rotate when hit and seems solidly mounted to the barrel via press fit.

The picatinny rail is permanently mounted to the top of the receiver area, exactly the same as on some of the Benjamin rifles. Welded, brazed, soldered? I dont know but its not going anywhere.

So all in all, i think this rifle is worth owning just for the looks and design, but at $230.00 from Cabela's I think they are pushing it a bit. Yeah, they include the throw-away scope but those 4 power Centerpoints are not very good to say the least.

Bottom line is if you want one, buy it now...can be a real pain to find used 10 years after production has ended.

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 Post subject: Re: Crosman MTR77-NP
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:33 pm 
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Location: Toronto, Ontario
Nice review Itguy! Just curious as to the velocity of this rifle. How's the trigger pull by the way? Please post some shot groups when you get the chance. I'd love to see the grouping size.

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 Post subject: Re: Crosman MTR77-NP
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 4:46 pm 
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megiddo65 wrote:
Nice review Itguy! Just curious as to the velocity of this rifle. How's the trigger pull by the way? Please post some shot groups when you get the chance. I'd love to see the grouping size.


Trigger: Usual Crosman garbage. To me, felt like one looooong stage...then is stopped..then more pressure, then it broke finally. Replaced it.
Velocity: I would say very close to the advertised limit of 495fps based on the depth of the hole in duct seal putty. Need a chronograph to be precise.

Let you know how it does once I get it to the range.

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 Post subject: Re: Crosman MTR77-NP
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:13 pm 
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I always thought this model was interesting. If they would just revamp their typical Crosman trigger I'd be a player. But sounds like you've done a lot of work to get it working nicely!

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 Post subject: Re: Crosman MTR77-NP
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:39 pm 
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fishguy wrote:
I always thought this model was interesting. If they would just revamp their typical Crosman trigger I'd be a player. But sounds like you've done a lot of work to get it working nicely!


Enjoyable work though :)

Hear you loud and clear on the trigger. I dont see the GTX trigger anymore on Eric's website (Scopes & Ammo) and I guess because they "mostly" fit the older steel trigger blade rifles from Crosman, are not a great seller at 50 bucks per....but they are SO worth it.

I fired one test shot after reassembly and the trigger is now a dream. Night and day difference.

Looking forward to taking it out this weekend and seeing what the rifle will do.

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When the 425-hp "street Hemi" version hit the street in 1965, it was akin to taking an M230 chain gun to an arcade shooting gallery
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 Post subject: Re: Crosman MTR77-NP
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 9:51 pm 
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Not a surprise that the trigger pull is long. My Crosman M4-177 also has a long pull and averages over 3 lbs; closer to 4.

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 Post subject: Re: Crosman MTR77-NP
PostPosted: Wed Jul 12, 2017 10:19 pm 
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megiddo65 wrote:
Not a surprise that the trigger pull is long. My Crosman M4-177 also has a long pull and averages over 3 lbs; closer to 4.


They have been crap for a long time now. Ever since the real firearm manufacturers started with rediculous trigger pulls thanks to liability and lawsuits. With Crosman it probably has as much to do with money as anything else.

There is also a very simple modification you can do to them by using an RC car bearing, but if you go overboard can make the rifle "unsafe," whatever that means.

I don't believe in trusting a mechanical device on a gun to be "safe".

Muzzle control and never point a gun at anything you aren't willing to kill is how I learned over 50 years ago.

Leaving a loaded, cocked rifle leaning in a corner where it could fall over and accidentally fire is just mind bendingly stupid imho.

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 Post subject: Re: Crosman MTR77-NP
PostPosted: Thu Jul 13, 2017 1:17 pm 
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Yeah liability or financial issue; it's too bad Crosman will not manufacture a lighter trigger on their guns. Took my Crosman 1322 carbine out to the range last night and the trigger pull on that sucker is probably close to 5 lbs. Since I'm not a technical/mechanical adept individual, I've left my Crosman shooters stock in terms of their trigger assemblies. Over time, I've grown so use to the trigger assembly and have learned to shoot with the heavy and long pull. I've seen an easy mod u can do via Youtube where you take out the spring from the grip and compress it to shorten it's length. It's suppose to lighten the pull slightly.

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 Post subject: Re: Crosman MTR77-NP
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 11:30 am 
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Disappointing so far.

6" to the right (not fixable) and 4" low at 25 feet.

I can fix the elevation by purchasing the extra low front sight, but with the rear sight as far left as it will go, the rifle shoots half a foot to the right of the POA..so, I put on the original rear sight \ carry handle the rifle came with and tried that. No difference.

I figure the barrel is probably bent, but who knows. I've lost interest now.

If I have to put a scope on it, it becomes like any other low end Crosman.

Oh well.

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When the 425-hp "street Hemi" version hit the street in 1965, it was akin to taking an M230 chain gun to an arcade shooting gallery
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 Post subject: Re: Crosman MTR77-NP
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:02 pm 
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If ever you want to sell it, please let me know :)

:drinkers:

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 Post subject: Re: Crosman MTR77-NP
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 4:20 pm 
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That's too bad the barrel is possibly bent. Looks like you'll have to aim to the left to compensate.

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 Post subject: Re: Crosman MTR77-NP
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:46 pm 
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airmec wrote:
If ever you want to sell it, please let me know :)

:drinkers:


I almost cant remember the last time i sold anything gun related...but will do.

I found something cool to put on it that i forgot I had...I have two on the shelf, may as well use one.....when they first came out they were a couple hundred bucks as I recall, now dirt cheap.

https://www.amazon.ca/IRON-JIAS-2-5-10x40-Illuminated-Picatinny/dp/B0177DOF9E/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1501713873&sr=8-9&keywords=2.5x10x40+scope+with+laser

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 Post subject: Re: Crosman MTR77-NP
PostPosted: Wed Aug 02, 2017 6:24 pm 
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Nice little scope! I just hope it'll stand the recoil, and if you can, post a pic when it'll be installed 8)

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 Post subject: Re: Crosman MTR77-NP
PostPosted: Sat Aug 05, 2017 2:28 pm 
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I was resting the forearm on a chair and the rifle was walking. Poor shooting on my part but I think this combo will do much better.
Squares 1/2"
Crosman Premiere pointed
20 yards
Scope on 6X

Did not use laser



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Image

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When the 425-hp "street Hemi" version hit the street in 1965, it was akin to taking an M230 chain gun to an arcade shooting gallery
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 Post subject: Re: Crosman MTR77-NP
PostPosted: Sun Aug 06, 2017 5:37 am 
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That group is pissing me off. If you look at the elevation, they are all within a 1/4" or maybe 1/2" at the most...this rifle needs a firm grip i think and doesn't like being rested "free floating" aka: artillery....

Going to try and get back out today and do things properly.

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