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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 12:31 pm 
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Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 1:02 am
Posts: 53
Location: ontario
Ok im confused on this issue in my user manuel it shows a small moderator and a bigger moderator i have the smaller version and i really like the looks of the bigger moderator is there a law that sais it can only be a certain length it's only an air rifle and not like its on a high powered rifle.I understand it is made in England and laws are different there than in Canada from what i have read there was 2 moderators made for this model. I have seen moderators on other guns is there something about it being a take down rifle. I have an opportunity to buy the larger moderator can someone explain if this is ok...

This is the air arms site and the bottom right is the owners manuel its the same as i have and they show both which confuses me but it does not say anything about the moderator being different for Canada..

http://www.air-arms.co.uk/products_TDR.html

Thank you


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 1:04 pm 
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Anything that reduces sound is illegal if it can be taken off and put on something (or anything) else.......

With our fantastic laws sometimes things can't be taken off/used are still disallowed, very few "stock" guns with fully shrouded/baffled barrels are sold in Canada........

So to answer your question; if it is just for looks, put a 5gal bucket sized "muzzlebrake" on there, no problem. If it not, and since you called it a moderator, regardless of the size it is not allowed. Unless of course you posses proper theatric or Military licenses, which I'm assuming you don't, as no one who actually likes guns has one :lol:

Maybe some CAF members should band together and get one!!!!then we can do a rendition of "Cats; on ice" with silenced 2240's!!!!! 8) :| :lol:

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 2:07 pm 
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Location: ontario
Thank you. jgoodz420 i respect you as i know you know your stuff. so is it true to say that the one i got shipped with the gun from airgunsource is illegal to begin with. I should redo my comment earlier not only for looks but i wanted something a bit heavier on the barrel end.
I just want to make sure now that what i was sent is ok..The rifle is quiet to begin with..Hey while i got yah i noticed alot of guns come with the moderators or muzzle ends (if that's what there called) as a one piece barrel just not removable are they considered elligal as well or is it touchy issue.

Thank you again for your time

mike


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 3:22 pm 
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Here is a little line from Theoben Air Guns.. "For countries such as the USA, with laws prohibiting the use of silencers or sound moderators Theoben® produce Barrel Weights and short Barrel Finishers".
So if checking all the air gun exporters, there is a Note; That quotes the same line as above. On the HW100; it arrives in Canada with a rather long heavy Muzzle weight and to note, the end of the barrel is not Threaded.
Looking at almost all European Air Rifle Parts list; you will see the part reference for a SLINCER. But the part reference for a Barrel Weight is not listed( Go Figure).
So unless Canadian Laws towards Air Rifle/Pistol are reviewed and changed, some people have a LDC....

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 4:36 pm 
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Location: ontario
Whats even crazier is that the part replacement in the instruction book is for the larger Moderator ..i guess i will just leave it the way it stands i just don't see the difference other than my moderator comes off and comes in another size..Yes i understand the law i just don't understand the air arms s410 tdr shows both Moderators..I guess if i pay for it and the rcmp approve it and i get it from a Canadian supplier than i hope im not illegal..

This is all new to me..and i Thank everyone for there response.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:13 pm 
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havinfun wrote:
Thank you. jgoodz420 i respect you as i know you know your stuff. so is it true to say that the one i got shipped with the gun from airgunsource is illegal to begin with. I should redo my comment earlier not only for looks but i wanted something a bit heavier on the barrel end.
I just want to make sure now that what i was sent is ok..The rifle is quiet to begin with..Hey while i got yah i noticed alot of guns come with the moderators or muzzle ends (if that's what there called) as a one piece barrel just not removable are they considered elligal as well or is it touchy issue.

Thank you again for your time

mike


Hmmm.....if it was ordered from airgunsource it should be fine, they would not sell a removable silencer, nobody can sell that to the general public. It must be a muzzle brake or muzzle weight.......

Have you looked inside the "moderator" itself? my guess is that it is hollow, or dam near. Muzzlebrake for sure will be just for looks unless modified by the user, shrouded/baffled barrels are made so the part(s) that reduce sound can never be removed without being destroyed in the process....

Anything that you order from airgunsource will be legal......

Cheers,

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:43 pm 
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Location: ontario
Here are the pics of both moderators..maybe it can be explained which is which..



Image

Image

Image

This is the moderator that is in the book as well as mine, i really like it but if it is called a slencer then i can't have it so be it..I really can't imagine it makes much difference in sound, but i am a newb at this.

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 7:47 pm 
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Location: brantford ontario
the picture of yours is just a muzzle break

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2010 8:14 pm 
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If you bought it in Canada, ya gotts believe that the folks you bought it from aren't selling illegal stuff....wouldn't be in business for very long.Laws about silencers/moderators are so FREEKIN' confusing, I don't think ANYONE really knows what's what...I got a NIB Air Arms S410..it came with a full barrel shroud, and is actually neighbor-friendly..If your gun is like the one in the top picture, then I see it doesn't have a shroud....it is permanently installed on mine...looks like they could do the same on Canadian models, then you wouldn't need any thing additional.....wacko laws :butthead: :butthead: :butthead:

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 3:00 pm 
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The device you're holding in the pic is merely a muzzle weight. Perfectly legal so worry no more. :)

I'll admit it irritates me to no end when folks call these things BRAKES, but such is the "popular" terminology. :roll:

A muzzle BRAKE has ports which redirect escaping gases (perpendicular to the bore and angled to the rear) in an effort to reduce percieved recoil. Quite useful on higher power powder burners...essentially useless on an airgun.

Might be worth doing a google image search to clarify WHAT is WHAT for yourself. All of these have a different function, yet mount on the muzzle end of the barrel. :)

Muzzle weights can be used to tune barrel harmonics for improved accuracy, or to add length to a barrel for whatever reason...under legal length, easier cocking with a springer, etc., or for looks alone.

http://www.google.ca/images?hl=en&gbv=2 ... =&gs_rfai=

Muzzle brake...

http://www.google.ca/images?hl=en&gbv=2 ... =&gs_rfai=

You should easily be able to tell which images apply to airguns. :wink:

http://www.google.ca/images?hl=en&gbv=2 ... =&gs_rfai=

Air strippers have a hollow cone in line with the bore. The pellet passes through the cone, the cone STRIPS away the bulk of the muzzle blast, and redirects it out the ports. This reduces the effect of muzzle blast on the pellet....increasing accuracy if everything works "right". Should be indexed to the bore for most reliable results.

http://www.google.ca/images?hl=en&gbv=2 ... =&gs_rfai=

Compensators, much like brakes and air strippers, redirect gases to achieve a net effect...in this case, reduced muzzle climb. Similar...but not the same device. And again...largely for show on an airgun.

And of course...all these "devices" have mass...and in effect are a type of muzzle weight too. :lol:

But only ONE of them is a muzzle brake.

:)


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 4:55 pm 
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Location: home of the Marshville Festival, Ontario, Canada
Gippeto wrote:
A muzzle BRAKE has ports which redirect escaping gases (perpendicular to the bore and angled to the rear) in an effort to reduce percieved recoil. Quite useful on higher power powder burners...essentially useless on an airgun.

Compensators, much like brakes and air strippers, redirect gases to achieve a net effect...in this case, reduced muzzle climb. Similar...but not the same device. And again...largely for show on an airgun.

A careful examination of many of the current state-of-the-art 10M pistols will tend to dispell the ineffectiveness of brakes/compensators that you allude to. These devices have been proven to be quite effective on airguns, just as they are on their powder burning counterparts.

Don Nygord proved the effectiveness of compensators for 10M pistol use, and manufactured a series of such devices for many of the CO2 and early PCP 10M pistols more than a decade or more ago.

I have been using a Cutts style compensator on a couple of my CO2 FT pistols to excellent effect to control muzzle flip. Very effective from my perspective.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:11 pm 
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Len...your word is good as gold. :)

I guess I learned something else today. 8)

And have something else I need to try eh. :wink:


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:17 pm 
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Gippeto wrote:
Compensators, much like brakes and air strippers, redirect gases to achieve a net effect...in this case, reduced muzzle climb. Similar...but not the same device. And again...largely for show on an airgun.


Really? I would argue the opposite, we just can't legally have them over here......Ever hear a Marauder without the shroud?.....yeah, me neither :lol:

Many high powered airguns are made to sound dam near like a Red Ryder using compensators, shrouding or baffling......I wish our laws would allow such "dangerous weapons of warfare" into this country :roll: :)

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 5:50 pm 
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The word "BRAKE" is used rather widely to avoid saying the "S" word...on my home forum (in my sig.) the "S" word will automatically be typed over and changed to something else ( I forgot what :oops: :oops: ) Point being that it's easier to just NOT have any discussion with THAT word in it.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 18, 2010 6:02 pm 
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jgoodz420 wrote:
Gippeto wrote:
Compensators, much like brakes and air strippers, redirect gases to achieve a net effect...in this case, reduced muzzle climb. Similar...but not the same device. And again...largely for show on an airgun.


Really? I would argue the opposite, we just can't legally have them over here......Ever hear a Marauder without the shroud?.....yeah, me neither :lol:

Many high powered airguns are made to sound dam near like a Red Ryder using compensators, shrouding or baffling......I wish our laws would allow such "dangerous weapons of warfare" into this country :roll: :)



:?


Compensators, brakes, and air strippers do NOT quiet the sound of the shot...so what are you referring to?


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