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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 11:59 am 
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I cleaned it all out and put this honda 70% in and the first shot dieseled like crazy and went straight THROUGH my phone book :shock: if there is just a tiny trace of the old crap grease still in there will it do this? I spent a while washing it out ...Understand... I saw sparks :o ... and it was loud... and it smelled like burning.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:42 pm 
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my phantom 500 diesels with just the oil on the daisy pellets, enough to fill the barrel with thick smoke,

The real test would have been if you fired it with just the old oil, and it dieseled then. if it is dieseling worse now then I would imagine you have a problem :roll:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:52 pm 
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r3mot3control wrote:
I cleaned it all out and put this honda 70% in and the first shot dieseled like crazy and went straight THROUGH my phone book :shock: if there is just a tiny trace of the old crap grease still in there will it do this? I spent a while washing it out ...Understand... I saw sparks :o ... and it was loud... and it smelled like burning.

How much did you use and it normal for guns to diesel alittle when first lubed use the heaviest pellet you have for the first 50 shots

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:53 pm 
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That wasn't dieseling. It was a detonation. I don't believe that's a good thing.

Use the search to lookup "detonate" or "detonation" and see what advice has floated around from before.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 12:56 pm 
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backyard blaster wrote:
my phantom 500 diesels with just the oil on the daisy pellets, enough to fill the barrel with thick smoke,

The real test would have been if you fired it with just the old oil, and it dieseled then. if it is dieseling worse now then I would imagine you have a problem :roll:



it did diesel with the old oil... I have now put in the supposed "right stuff" = poly paste at the same time I changed the spring and piston and though it shouldn't diesel, it does. Whats a good way to get rid of every little bit of old grease that may be left, because as far as I can figure that is the only possible problem. Then I will try again.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:12 pm 
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Doc wrote:
That wasn't dieseling. It was a detonation. I don't believe that's a good thing.

Use the search to lookup "detonate" or "detonation" and see what advice has floated around from before.



from what info I found ...moly-paste can detonate? It says use sparingly many places... are these places ok:

1) tips of spring
2) a smudge around outer edge of piston


prior to this info, I had put a thin coating on all internals... even the top of piston, is the top of the piston a nono?

-----------------------------------------------a quote-----------------------

"I've used both dielectric and pure silicone oil in my B4. I've had no problems with either. There may be better choices but both work fine when used sparingly. I found that moly anywhere near the piston ended up making its way past the seal and into the chamber causing detonation to some extent. I prefer a slight trade off in power (no detonation) to gain consistency. "

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:20 pm 
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r3mot3control wrote:
Doc wrote:
That wasn't dieseling. It was a detonation. I don't believe that's a good thing.

Use the search to lookup "detonate" or "detonation" and see what advice has floated around from before.



from what info I found ...moly-paste can detonate? It says use sparingly many places... are these places ok:

1) tips of spring
2) a smudge around outer edge of piston


prior to this info, I had put a thin coating on all internals... even the top of piston, is the top of the piston a nono?

-----------------------------------------------a quote-----------------------

"I've used both dielectric and pure silicone oil in my B4. I've had no problems with either. There may be better choices but both work fine when used sparingly. I found that moly anywhere near the piston ended up making its way past the seal and into the chamber causing detonation to some extent. I prefer a slight trade off in power (no detonation) to gain consistency. "

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes the top of the piston is very bad take it apart clean it all off and start again ...I use alittle on the side of the piston so you can see through it and on the side of the spring and ends

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:22 pm 
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lauchlin wrote:
r3mot3control wrote:
Doc wrote:
That wasn't dieseling. It was a detonation. I don't believe that's a good thing.

Use the search to lookup "detonate" or "detonation" and see what advice has floated around from before.



from what info I found ...moly-paste can detonate? It says use sparingly many places... are these places ok:

1) tips of spring
2) a smudge around outer edge of piston


prior to this info, I had put a thin coating on all internals... even the top of piston, is the top of the piston a nono?

-----------------------------------------------a quote-----------------------

"I've used both dielectric and pure silicone oil in my B4. I've had no problems with either. There may be better choices but both work fine when used sparingly. I found that moly anywhere near the piston ended up making its way past the seal and into the chamber causing detonation to some extent. I prefer a slight trade off in power (no detonation) to gain consistency. "

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yes the top of the piston is very bad take it apart clean it all off and start again ...I use alittle on the side of the piston so you can see through it and on the side of the spring and ends


and this is enough to lube the seal? hmmm... I'll try that. Only other question is what do you personally use to wash out the grease inside the chamber? ...any solvent a better choice... or even safer to use?

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 1:55 pm 
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no wonder it's dieseling.. never put moly on the face of the piston seal.. geez... DO you have any idea how much heat and pressure there is in that compression chamber at the end of the piston's stroke? that is what causes the lubricants to detonate. If you don't clean it properly and it continues to detonate your seal will go and your spring will be canted.

You only need a very thin coat AROUND the BACK EDGE of the seal, the edge that comes in contact with the compression tube.

Go clean it out.. remove the piston and spring and use thinners to wash out all the old grease and oil..


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 2:20 pm 
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rvd wrote:
no wonder it's dieseling.. never put moly on the face of the piston seal.. geez... DO you have any idea how much heat and pressure there is in that compression chamber at the end of the piston's stroke? that is what causes the lubricants to detonate. If you don't clean it properly and it continues to detonate your seal will go and your spring will be canted.

You only need a very thin coat AROUND the BACK EDGE of the seal, the edge that comes in contact with the compression tube.

Go clean it out.. remove the piston and spring and use thinners to wash out all the old grease and oil..



it's fixed, that was the problem... moly on the tip. Sounded like a freakin cannon. I didnt realize it takes so little grease. Damage wise I did manage to bend that removable arm that goes from the trigger to the part that goes into the chamber :oops: wasn't to bad, could a been though.

I'm sorta new to springers ...been into multi pumps alot up till now.

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:04 pm 
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In that case, you might want to read this. You can link to the other parts at the top of the article.

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/08/ ... sting.html

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 3:32 pm 
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Doc wrote:
In that case, you might want to read this. You can link to the other parts at the top of the article.

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/08/ ... sting.html

Ya i would use half as much lube

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 4:04 pm 
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Doc wrote:
In that case, you might want to read this. You can link to the other parts at the top of the article.

http://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2006/08/ ... sting.html


bookmarked... still nothing gets a point across like screwing something up once the first time, at least thats what Im telling myself :oops: yeah... works great now :mrgreen:

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PostPosted: Tue Jul 14, 2009 8:52 pm 
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r3mot3control wrote:

bookmarked... still nothing gets a point across like screwing something up once the first time, at least thats what Im telling myself :oops: yeah... works great now :mrgreen:


That's what its all about. enjoying yourself and learning at the same time. 8) Learning for for me usually involves a few consequences as well. :wink:

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