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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 2:30 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:33 pm
Posts: 14
Hey,

I picked up a 630 recently.
Was told that the gun had been rarely used and was about 30 years old.
Plinked away with no issues for a number of sessions when out of the blue the gun would no longer cock.

Opened it up and did most of what was suggested to lube the gun as per "cherry twist" instructions. I did not spread the spring guide nor sand down the ends of the spring. I did not see a white plastic spacer either as described in the instructions on the off chance that is of any consequence.

Put it back together and fired less than 10 pellets, before the gun fired on it's on. Safety was on, didn't touch the trigger but it fired-put a pellet through my garage door (the particle board in the panels splinter on the exit side...aggggh, what a mess). Scary too.

After that the gun wouldn't cock again. Break the barrel and it just doesn't catch and hold...what am I doing wrong? What do I need to fix?

Apologies if this has been answered elsewhere-I couldn't find it.

Thank-you kindly for any and all replies.

Aaron


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:25 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1278
Location: United States
It may be a trigger adjustment, if it has one. If not you'll probably need to take the trigger out to see wth. If you have trouble figuring it out you can post pix of the trigger assy and I can try to id the problem.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 11:07 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:33 pm
Posts: 14
Chevota,

Thank-you for the suggestion.
A couple of images below that I drew on a napkin this morning:

Attachment:
File comment: Trigger Assembly
IMG_9157.JPG
IMG_9157.JPG [ 145.27 KiB | Viewed 1905 times ]


Attachment:
File comment: Trigger Adjustment
IMG_9158.JPG
IMG_9158.JPG [ 128.27 KiB | Viewed 1905 times ]


I did not note where the spring that slips up and down the neck of the trigger is sitting. Perhaps it has been set too light and is causing the issue described?
I'll have a closer look this evening and see if adjusting the position of the spring fixes it.


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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 4:37 pm 
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Location: United States
Try cocking it all the way back, then push the trigger fwd and hold it there, then see if it catches. If not then maybe that sear/catch is worn or broken.
Nice napkin art ;)


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 5:19 am 
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Posts: 173
Location: Sidney, BC.
I think you'll find your missing a small coil spring that fits in front of the trigger and sear.
KEN.


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PostPosted: Sat Dec 06, 2014 11:54 am 
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KEN. wrote:
I think you'll find your missing a small coil spring that fits in front of the trigger and sear.
KEN.

X2 there is a small spring that sits in front of the trigger to bring it back into its position its part #CS641 in this diagram under the trigger mechanism assembly.
check this link:
http://airgunz.altervista.org/CatalogoN ... sploso.gif


sorry for the blurry pic but just so you get the idea where it sits.

Image

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PostPosted: Sun Dec 07, 2014 11:15 pm 
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Thank-you for the thoughts so far.
The tiny spring connecting the trigger and the sear is in place and functioning.
Cocking it and trying to manipulate the trigger in any way (it doesn't actually move forward) doesn't do anything.

I've been having a PM exchange with barbas929 (aka Steve) who thought it might be the small spring that sits in the stock but I've put that in and out a thousand times, it seems to be lined up and correctly positioned...all to no avail.

I pulled the gun apart again drying any surfaces that might have attracted grease in the tear down process that shouldn't have any. Carefully re-assembled it. No change.
I'd be more freaked if the problem hadn't existed prior to my "cherry twist" tune. Oddly the tune made the gun function again but only briefly.

Now the barrel breaks, everything seems to catch, the trigger clicks, the safety activates but the barrel doesn't remain down, it's just slips forward when you let the pressure off. Something is supposed to be happening here that isn't...

I pulled the stock off to get a better look.

Spring is compressed, sear catches with the center shaft of the piston, sear looks like it catches the trigger but as the pressure is released from the barrel the center shaft slips past the sear, the sear...ooooh, and what do you know?
Perhaps Steve was right!

If I keep my hand firmly on the cock lever, the rifle cocks!
Now I have a cocked barrel assembly separate from the stock but, but that's progress....

I tweaked the "spring" guide that sits in the stock to place more tension on the cock lever but obviously not enough. Re-assembled the rifle fired once and now won't cock again. *Sigh*

More to come.


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 12:14 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:33 pm
Posts: 14
Interestingly this is a comment from another airgun forum:

The one real problem I encountered was the ill fitting sheet spring cocking lever retainer, just would not hold the cocking lever high enough
to cock the rifle. gave me fits.

Here I had just spent the best part of two hours disassembling fitting
taking apart and reassembling and the rifle would not cock or it would cock once and as soon as it was fired the cocking arm would jump out of the piston slot.

My solution: I drilled three 1/4" holes, 1/4 " deep in the bottom inside of the stock where the cocking arm lays. Cut three pieces 1/4" coil spring cut to 1/2 long., just set them in the holes. reassembled and that arm snugged right up no jiggle, nice and tight, shot about 25 rounds . looks to be a good fix for for this rifle.

S/SP Very Happy


Ah ha! Someone else was driven mental by the issue. Sadly I don't even know what his solution means...

I tried tweaking the spring to give a bit more lift but no dice.
Anyone else done something (fingers crossed) simple that worked to put sufficient pressure on the cocking arm?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:24 am 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1278
Location: United States
I believe that fix is for a different problem. Sounds like his cocking linkage was falling out so he propped it up. Maybe you'll have that to look fwd to as well.
Yours may be wear, either on the trigger, the sear, and/or the pins/holes holding them. The bump on the sear that goes into the piston shaft may be worn, or however sear or the pistons shaft is held in place isn't doing it's job. Maybe a part left out?
How about this question; what is holding the sear/catch in place? When the piston shaft slips by is either the shaft or sear moving allowing this to happen?
Have you played with it minus the spring so you can see it all work more closely, or does that assy come out of the tube so you can see it in action? It kinda looks like it has to be in the tube to work, but hard to tell from that sketch. Also being 2D I can't get a full picture in my head of the sear. If you take it apart again could you post some pix of it?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 10:25 am 
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adelazzer- sounds to me like what Chevota has said ether something has worn down and not letter the trigger or sear engage, curious did you put any washers in the piston or behind the spring to raise spring tension at all, sounds like something isn't lining up.

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 1:46 pm 
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Gents,

I will defer to your experience and continue to explore the sear/trigger area.
I've inspected it all, it looks good, nothing obviously worn or out of place. No missing parts-I'm not perfect but pretty damn careful with stuff like this.

Yours may be wear, either on the trigger, the sear, and/or the pins/holes holding them. The bump on the sear that goes into the piston shaft may be worn, or however sear or the pistons shaft is held in place isn't doing it's job. Maybe a part left out?
How about this question; what is holding the sear/catch in place? When the piston shaft slips by is either the shaft or sear moving allowing this to happen?
Have you played with it minus the spring so you can see it all work more closely, or does that assy come out of the tube so you can see it in action? It kinda looks like it has to be in the tube to work, but hard to tell from that sketch. Also being 2D I can't get a full picture in my head of the sear. If you take it apart again could you post some pix of it?


-the sear is held in place by a pin and yes when the piston shaft slips by the sear clicks up and moves as does the trigger.

I'll try to take some pics if possible...can I post video on here? That might help too.

In my ignorance and innocence, I'll also see what can be done about increasing the pressure on the cocking arm... :)

There was nothing done to raise the spring tension (I'm a big fan of running cars, rifles whatever as "stock" and immune to the allure of "more power" :) ) and as mentioned earlier none was discovered in there upon first dis-assembly, where as the gent in the Cherrytwist article describes a white one that falls out for him.

The cocking arm wasn't disengaging for me when it wouldn't cock but it wasn't until I kept firm pressure on the arm that the rifle finally held and remained cocked.

Who is in Vancouver that I could take this to see? Anyone, anyone?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 2:20 pm 
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Hope you get it sorted out, now you got me really curious as to what could be wrong with it, I'm sure its nothing major and you might be over looking something, if only you were in TO I'd gladly have a look at it for you.
good luck. :wink:

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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 7:07 pm 
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Joined: Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:35 pm
Posts: 3099
Location: Alberta Canada
adelazzer wrote:
Gents,

I will defer to your experience and continue to explore the sear/trigger area.
I've inspected it all, it looks good, nothing obviously worn or out of place. No missing parts-I'm not perfect but pretty damn careful with stuff like this.

Yours may be wear, either on the trigger, the sear, and/or the pins/holes holding them. The bump on the sear that goes into the piston shaft may be worn, or however sear or the pistons shaft is held in place isn't doing it's job. Maybe a part left out?
How about this question; what is holding the sear/catch in place? When the piston shaft slips by is either the shaft or sear moving allowing this to happen?
Have you played with it minus the spring so you can see it all work more closely, or does that assy come out of the tube so you can see it in action? It kinda looks like it has to be in the tube to work, but hard to tell from that sketch. Also being 2D I can't get a full picture in my head of the sear. If you take it apart again could you post some pix of it?


-the sear is held in place by a pin and yes when the piston shaft slips by the sear clicks up and moves as does the trigger.

I'll try to take some pics if possible...can I post video on here? That might help too.

In my ignorance and innocence, I'll also see what can be done about increasing the pressure on the cocking arm... :)

There was nothing done to raise the spring tension (I'm a big fan of running cars, rifles whatever as "stock" and immune to the allure of "more power" :) ) and as mentioned earlier none was discovered in there upon first dis-assembly, where as the gent in the Cherrytwist article describes a white one that falls out for him.

The cocking arm wasn't disengaging for me when it wouldn't cock but it wasn't until I kept firm pressure on the arm that the rifle finally held and remained cocked.From what you describe here is either a wear/clearence issue upon the sear or the piston tube.

Who is in Vancouver that I could take this to see? Anyone, anyone?

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Whitewolf


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 24, 2014 1:33 pm
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Whitewolf,

Are you thinking that this wear would be where the shaft of the piston tube contacts the sear?
If yes, I have checked those contact points and see no obvious wear.

However, the reason I ask is that there was significant wear on the outside of the piston tube. In other examples I've seen there are two slightly raised ends (that are suggested to be smoothed when tuning), on my tube the center section of the side of the tube has been worn smooth (normally this has a rough/pebbled surface) and this extends into the area that was once raised-making it partially raised on only 3/4 of it's circumference. Could this create an issue?

Solution?
Buy a new piston tube and/or sear?


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PostPosted: Mon Dec 08, 2014 9:20 pm 
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Location: Alberta Canada
A few pics would help clairfly you discription of wear upon the piston.

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