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 Post subject: 10-12m groupings
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:44 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:33 pm
Posts: 33
Acouple groupings i shot this morning, somewhere between 10/12m 2handed, standing, unsupported.

I find with the semi auto i tend to get more fatigued will shooting and my groupings start to open up. i thinking i might try and put the pistol down after every shot or two just to keep fresh. I have also started shooting with my left eye (still right handed). My right eye is pretty messed and my shoulder is very weak and cannot hold the gun without shaking. (bummed surgery)

anyways what do you guys think, the targets are 10m air pistol olympic targets.

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 Post subject: Re: 10-12m groupings
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 11:50 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:27 am
Posts: 2514
Location: Vancouver
Not bad shooting. Is this pellet or BB? What air pistol? When you say 'semi-auto' I think BB... but I know very little about this type of air pistol. The unclear holes would seem to indicate a BB, as proper ISSF targets cut cleanly with a wadcutter pellet.


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 Post subject: Re: 10-12m groupings
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:00 pm 
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Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:49 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Victoria, BC and Clarkston, WA
I am thinking the same thing Gerard. When you are practicing have a little stand in front of you with pellets, binoculars or spotting scope. On it. Keep you arm straight and lower it to this stand to give your shoulder a rest. You can find a snare drum stand at a pawn shop that you can adjust to height and cobble a pellet holder to it, even duct tape. I have a pistol shooting stand from Freeland, but have shot competitively for 35 years.

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 Post subject: Re: 10-12m groupings
PostPosted: Wed Apr 22, 2015 12:46 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:16 pm
Posts: 1787
GerardSamija wrote:
Not bad shooting. Is this pellet or BB? What air pistol? When you say 'semi-auto' I think BB... but I know very little about this type of air pistol. The unclear holes would seem to indicate a BB, as proper ISSF targets cut cleanly with a wadcutter pellet.

I don't think you will ever see a group like that first one from a semi-auto BB gun. Allheart is the lucky owner of a Steyr LP50, and I'm guessing that was what he was using.

Very nice shooting. I shoot left eye right handed too. I suspect it is a bit of a disadvantage, but I lack enthusiasm for retraining either eye or hand. I guess it depends on how much damage you have, but hopefully the shoulder will strengthen up over time. I guess little and often is the way to go. For those targets, you can really slow things down so that you have plenty of recovery time between shots. As Rick said, you want a shooting bench or similar rest in front of you so that the gun can be rested comfortably between shots. You want the arm to be relaxed without letting go of the grip.

Have you tried the 5 shot rapid fire targets yet? It's a great feeling once you start to get the rhythm of it, and because of the time limit you actually spend less time supporting the gun than in slow fire, so it might be easier on your shoulder.

All the best,
Jim


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 Post subject: Re: 10-12m groupings
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:43 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:33 pm
Posts: 33
yea i did these with the steyr, was using crosman pointed pellets just cause i ran out of better pellets. Ive gone through over 4000 pellets this week :S

ive been shooting double handed, with a red dot sight (burris fastfire 3). I will definitely be getting a shooting bench, i like the idea of putting the pistol down after every shot to recover. im generally getting quite good groups, not always on the target though. i still havent mastered the single handed game yet


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 Post subject: Re: 10-12m groupings
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 8:05 pm 
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Joined: Sun Feb 10, 2013 1:16 pm
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4000 in a week - you're having way too much fun!

I'd always argue that groups are what matters. Once the groups are tight it's just a question of dialling in the sights.

Jim


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 Post subject: Re: 10-12m groupings
PostPosted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 9:36 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 13, 2009 1:27 am
Posts: 2514
Location: Vancouver
I'd suggest shooting less quantity and more quality shots. Dry fire is especially useful. Switch the pistol to dry fire mode and shoot single, careful shots at a blank wall. Focus your eye on the red dot only. Work towards making the trigger finger move smoothly without hesitation, just drawing it back on a schedule which should become more and more the same with every shot. Some of the best pistol shooters shoot more than ten times as many shots without ammunition as live, just the click of the trigger to say that anything has happened. Building a perfectly smooth trigger action without any target is one of the fundamental skills. At times practice the same but with a target, not worrying about holding motionless (as that is impossible) but instead working on keeping the sights aligned through the trigger release and at least a second or so after it. Follow-through is important, as it makes the shot itself less significant in itself, allowing focus to shift towards consistent hold and stability. Then do a bit of live fire as a reward for your disciplined dry fire time. You should see quite dramatic improvement in scoring quite soon, and this should continue if you maintain the routine, gradually working in all the other elements of stance, grip consistency, timing, breathing, self-awareness... it is a meditation which can only improve through high quality repetition. Sheer numbers of live shots are unlikely to offer nearly as good results. When I was training hard for ISSF 10m air pistol I would go through perhaps 500 pellets on a busy week. 4,000 seems likely to lead to injury.


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 Post subject: Re: 10-12m groupings
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:16 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 09, 2014 3:33 pm
Posts: 33
I have been shooting at different targets trying different aiming techniques. Right now i am shooting best with right hand, left eye (right eye closed) and focusing on the dot rather than the target. Its still abit uncomfortable but i am getting used to it and my results are improving. Its quite abit different than the way I was taught in the paras, which was both eyes open, focusing on the target. I also used to hold the rifle with my left hand as i am left eye dominate but after bumming my shoulder i am forced to shoot with my right.

today i shot my best score 55 points (my own rules :D ) pretty much i use one of the old marksman challenge targets, inward scoring, grey target=1 white target=2 midd target 3 but if a pellet is buried inside the middle, with no edges touching the white i call it a 5 :)

here are acouple targets from today, shot double handed, with a red dot sight at 10-12m
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btw, how can over shooting lead to injury? trigger finger, lead poisoning? not trying to wind you up, im actually quite curious


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 Post subject: Re: 10-12m groupings
PostPosted: Tue Apr 28, 2015 9:40 pm 
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Great shooting. I would love to try that pistol! A Steyr LP10 would be my dream pistol (I go back and forth over the electronic trigger or not), but if I had the $$$ then I'd match it up with an LP50 in a flash. It's funny, I can't shoot dense targets like that with a pistol, it gets me all twisted up over where to shoot next. :oops:

It's interesting what you were saying about aiming technique. A red dot lends itself to shooting both eyes open, and the point of focus for the dot and the target should be more or less the same. The optics of the sight pushes the apparent position of the red dot out ahead of the gun. For shooting iron sights I find it helps to blank off my right eye. Either way I guess the concentration goes on the dot or front sight, which amounts to the same thing as focus. I've never managed quite as much accuracy with the red dot, but it sure looks like you're getting there.

As for over shooting, it's definitely possible to strain the shoulder if you overdo the one handed style, I've done that. Probably the bigger worry is that you might train yourself into some bad habits if you shoot too fast, but that's really only an issue if you wanted to get serious about the slow fire discipline. Since you have a semi-auto you're going to want to enjoy it for what it is, so you're bound to get through more pellets than us single loaders do :)

Jim


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