This bears repeating, as it is accurate to the letter. In Murray's quoted reg, the key words are
MAY call:
Daryl wrote:
paddyfritz wrote:
You cant keep a record of the transaction. Example, pal #, address, S/N and so on. Doing so is a backdoor registry as it were and the federal government says you cant do that. As a private seller, you only are required to ask if the buyer has a PAL.
Exactly - however, even back in the 1970's, stores kept & were required to keep a record of name, address, gun & serial # for THEIR records. These records had to be shown to THE inspecting Fire Arms officer when they visited, just to see that such records were kept up to date. No information was transferred to the Fire Arms officer.
After the registry was shut down, many police departments in Canada HARD COPIED the long arm registration - contrary to the orders of the Government of the day, indeed, contrary to direct orders to the contrary.
This also happened in High River, Alberta. One couple, when picking up their "Confiscated" firearms at the detachment: The Cst. handing over a pair of shotguns noted "These are not Registered to you". He was advised by the owner, that "They do not have to be registered" & were purchased AFTER the registry was stopped. Obviously, that detachment had a working copy of the Long gun registry and had checked all the firearms they stole from the houses against that registry - contrary to the orders of the Government.
At guns shows, before handing over a rifle or shotgun I am selling, I ask - Do you possess a valid P.A.L. in your name? If the answer is yes, I ask to see the P.A.L., even though technically I do not have to see it. I compare the picture to the customer, then hand it back. I keep no record of the transaction, as that is not mandated in the Code.
Since the Registry was (supposedly) thrown out, I have turned over all most all my guns, except for the handguns a few rifles and a cap lock 14 bore rifle - pattered after single barreled 'Indian' hunting rifles of the 1850-1860 period.
I can't remember how many arguments I just had to give up on because my oppositions were not going to budge. Notwithstanding one's desire for more than the required due diligence, any pursuance, written or said, need not be anything more than, "This is a PAL-rated rifle and requires a license." The criminal issue is
possession. Could you be charged for selling a Pal rifle to an individual? It's possible, due to negligence ( e.g., selling to a child) or some type of conspiracy (e.g., selling multiple guns for re-distribution), but in everyday, up-front PAL rifle transfers, the seller has no obligation to
ensure the buyer has a license to possess.
Do not
EVER send photocopies or jpegs of your PAL license to anyone other than a retail dealer or someone you know very well (people using aliases on air gun forums DO NOT qualify, unless they are known to be acting as an authorized retailer). Forum rules specify you must not sell to minors <18. Forum rules say nothing about requirements for selling PAL-rated air guns - it's absent by intent.
Forum members SHOULD NOT be asked for copies of their PALs (or even their PAL number, as far as I'm concerned because the buyer has to share added personal information - info the CFO will ask for to verify the number). Really, it's just plain stupid to comply with such a demand, simply because it is not required, and it is an open invitation to identity theft. If you state clearly in your ad that the rifle is PAL-rated and requires a licence to possess, you have done your due diligence as a seller (notwithstanding just cause for suspicions about the buyer - in that case, just don't sell it to him).
Just for the record, I'm not trying to tell all members to do it
my way; lots of people are pretty persnickety about these matters, and it's their right if they so choose. There's a good chance, though, that a lot of people are asking for private information because that's the way it's done in retail stores, and they don't know the legal requirements when selling privately. Now you do.
Edit: Just so I'm absolutely clear, the discussion above is related only to forum sales where a face-to-face is impractical. Sure, if you're selling at a gun show, or to a person down the street,
due diligence MAY could possibly be defined as requesting a visual PAL check (but not to duplicate or to record info). However, it is by no means in the regs.