Canadian Airgun Forum

A quick question for the forum members here. I'm aware the RCMP has a record/registry of all the Restricted/Prohibited firearms a licensed gun owner can have in his/her possession. With the registration of all non-restricted firearms scrapped in 2012, I was wondering if the RCMP keeps a current listing of the non restricted firearms a gun owner purchases after 2012?? I made a PB purchase last year and I remember the salesperson took my PAL card info and made a phone call in a backroom. I heard him mention the manufacturer, calibre, and serial number of the gun I bought over the phone to someone(I'm assuming the RCMP). This piqued my curiosity lately.

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Megiddo65

On my last PB purchase last year the salesperson examined my PAL card carefully an that's it. On to the cash regiter. I did reade a recomendation when selling a used PB that we should call to verify the cards validity. It would be good to know the proper way

I haven't bought any personally but while i was purchasing my last restricted someone got and walked out with a non restricted Robinson arms XCR-M without any registration papers what so ever.
I noticed and asked the salesman when the guy left cause that looked like a restricted to me lol

I was told by a friend today that the salesperson will usually call the CFO to verify the PAL #. I'm assuming the salesperson in my case was probably calling the CFO to do so and stated that I was buying a Ruger 22 cal firearm. The numbers he read off was probably the PAL# instead of the Serial number of the rifle. I just heard numbers, but didn't make the effort to remember which ones he read out.

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Megiddo65

When I bought my Ruger, the box came off the shelf, I showed him my PAL, the counterguy opened it up so I could inspect and approve of the stock, it went back in the box, he carried it to the cashier with me, I paid, then left, no calls or registering anything
Got my SKS from an ex workmate at a gun show, he checked my PAL, I paid, I left

I think if I was selling a rifle myself, that Id write down the buyers PAL number just for my own records, but maybe that's not required

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Weihrauch HW97KT .22 + Hawke Varmint 4-16x44 SF
Crosman357 .177
Crosman Phantom .22
Crosman 2240
Daisy 953
Ruger Green Mountain Laminate 10/22+Hawke Airmax 3-9x40 AO
1950 Russian SKS
Remington 783 30-06 Hawke Vantage 6-24x44 SF

It's funny how different people handle the situation in various ways Mike; some are more meticulous than others. When I bought my PAL springer from AirGunSource, Travis just looked at my PAL and rung up the bill.

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Megiddo65

From the RCMP site:

When transferring a non-restricted firearm, the transferor (a seller or giver) may contact the CFP and request confirmation of whether the transferee (a buyer or recipient), at the time of transfer, holds a licence authorizing them to acquire and possess that kind of firearm.

Restricted or prohibited firearms must be verified by an approved verifier if they are being transferred to a new owner and have not been previously verified.

So perhaps if someone shops there is a verified regularly they look like a restricted guy (gun guy joke perhaps) and if it is a non-restricted they may or may not call to check depending on their own policy.

Hope this helps a little.

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Keep you powder dry and your seals oiled.
Shoot straight and safe.

http://plinkercases.ca/

Thanks for the info from the RCMP site Murray. It should serve useful if i ever sell off powder burners in the future.

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Megiddo65

Again, thx for the info Murray

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Weihrauch HW97KT .22 + Hawke Varmint 4-16x44 SF
Crosman357 .177
Crosman Phantom .22
Crosman 2240
Daisy 953
Ruger Green Mountain Laminate 10/22+Hawke Airmax 3-9x40 AO
1950 Russian SKS
Remington 783 30-06 Hawke Vantage 6-24x44 SF

Many, but not all, businesses will record, PAL#, Name for record keeping as the provincial CFO requires them to do so, also it is a way of protecting the business against internal theft.

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I get a charge outta shootin' air!

You cant keep a record of the transaction. Example, pal #, address, S/N and so on. Doing so is a backdoor registry as it were and the federal government says you cant do that. As a private seller, you only are required to ask if the buyer has a PAL.

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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson.

Exactly - however, even back in the 1970's, stores kept & were required to keep a record of name, address, gun & serial # for THEIR records. These records had to be shown to THE inspecting Fire Arms officer when they visited, just to see that such records were kept up to date. No information was transferred to the Fire Arms officer.

After the registry was shut down, many police departments in Canada HARD COPIED the long arm registration - contrary to the orders of the Government of the day, indeed, contrary to direct orders to the contrary.

This also happened in High River, Alberta. One couple, when picking up their "Confiscated" firearms at the detachment: The Cst. handing over a pair of shotguns noted "These are not Registered to you". He was advised by the owner, that "They do not have to be registered" & were purchased AFTER the registry was stopped. Obviously, that detachment had a working copy of the Long gun registry and had checked all the firearms they stole from the houses against that registry - contrary to the orders of the Government.

At guns shows, before handing over a rifle or shotgun I am selling, I ask - Do you possess a valid P.A.L. in your name? If the answer is yes, I ask to see the P.A.L., even though technically I do not have to see it. I compare the picture to the customer, then hand it back. I keep no record of the transaction, as that is not mandated in the Code.

Since the Registry was (supposedly) thrown out, I have turned over all most all my guns, except for the handguns a few rifles and a cap lock 14 bore rifle - pattered after single barreled 'Indian' hunting rifles of the 1850-1860 period.

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Best Wishes
Daryl

This bears repeating, as it is accurate to the letter. In Murray's quoted reg, the key words are MAY call:



I can't remember how many arguments I just had to give up on because my oppositions were not going to budge. Notwithstanding one's desire for more than the required due diligence, any pursuance, written or said, need not be anything more than, "This is a PAL-rated rifle and requires a license." The criminal issue is possession. Could you be charged for selling a Pal rifle to an individual? It's possible, due to negligence ( e.g., selling to a child) or some type of conspiracy (e.g., selling multiple guns for re-distribution), but in everyday, up-front PAL rifle transfers, the seller has no obligation to ensure the buyer has a license to possess.

Do not EVER send photocopies or jpegs of your PAL license to anyone other than a retail dealer or someone you know very well (people using aliases on air gun forums DO NOT qualify, unless they are known to be acting as an authorized retailer). Forum rules specify you must not sell to minors <18. Forum rules say nothing about requirements for selling PAL-rated air guns - it's absent by intent.

Forum members SHOULD NOT be asked for copies of their PALs (or even their PAL number, as far as I'm concerned because the buyer has to share added personal information - info the CFO will ask for to verify the number). Really, it's just plain stupid to comply with such a demand, simply because it is not required, and it is an open invitation to identity theft. If you state clearly in your ad that the rifle is PAL-rated and requires a licence to possess, you have done your due diligence as a seller (notwithstanding just cause for suspicions about the buyer - in that case, just don't sell it to him).

Just for the record, I'm not trying to tell all members to do it my way; lots of people are pretty persnickety about these matters, and it's their right if they so choose. There's a good chance, though, that a lot of people are asking for private information because that's the way it's done in retail stores, and they don't know the legal requirements when selling privately. Now you do.

Edit: Just so I'm absolutely clear, the discussion above is related only to forum sales where a face-to-face is impractical. Sure, if you're selling at a gun show, or to a person down the street, due diligence MAY could possibly be defined as requesting a visual PAL check (but not to duplicate or to record info). However, it is by no means in the regs.

Well said. The seller only has to ask if the buyer has a pal. It is the buyer who is required to comply with the law.
Providing a copy of a pal to an individual is asking for problems down the road. I have only given mine to retailers. Even then, it could be a problem if an employee is acting in bad faith. How many credit cards get swiped twice by employees making their own copy ?.

Many of you may recall someone posted a copy of a pal on this forum because they thought it was stolen.

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"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." - Thomas Jefferson.

If buying from a forum and the seller really wants to see proof of
PAL, I just send a picture of mine with my thumb over the numbers. They have their proof, I have my security.