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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:31 pm 
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Hello guys and gyals,
So my question and the topic I was interested in discussing with you all is the following.

Whats different in the Canadian Benjamin classic .22 in comparison to the American standard?
When you say that the Classic is De-tuned.. what exactly is De-tuned in the gun? is it reversible? What are the remedies to reverse the de-tune of the Classic 22?


Lets talk about:
-Piston length, size, shape
-Bleed Holes, size, have any? or not
-Spring length, size, tension, etc
-Barrel length, size, material, etc
-Internal parts, added, removed?
-Discussion on whether anyone has played around with the Classic and was able to increase velocity/fps
-Whats the maximum fps attainable or can be achieved for this Classic .22?
-Parts needed? replaced? costs? where to buy within Canada?
-Lets talk about mods mods mods !

I'm sure a lot of people will benefit from the answers provided by informed individuals like yourself so your input is valued and much appreciated !

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 5:36 pm 
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I heard the Quest 1000 piston can be installed and replace the original part within the Classic .22
http://scopesandammo.com/storefront/pro ... -kit-p-354

Ive heard the trigger assembly can be exchanged for a easier more sensitive trigger which helps with accuracy
http://scopesandammo.com/storefront/pro ... more-p-242

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 17, 2015 8:53 pm 
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Location: Kingston, ON
Mark1 wrote:

[color=#004000]Whats different in the Canadian Benjamin classic .22 in comparison to the American standard?


I believe the Classic is only made as a 495 fps model, both in the USA and Canada. It does have the same platform as the other Crosmans based on the BAM B18/19 so parts from Quest/Phantom/vantage/optimus/ etc will most likely interchange.

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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 5:45 am 
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Location: Eastern Townships
I took apart both the Classic and the Phantom, and I can tell you they're about the same internally. The Classic's piston has a hole in it for de-tuning (in my rifle anyway), and that piston is the same size as the Phantom. As Dukemeister said, these rifles share the same basic platform, so I guess the parts for one will fit the other.
Except for power mods, I did a good tuning on my Classic: trigger parts polishing and trigger blade changed for an adjustable one, de-burring and polishing of all rough edges, including the transfer port, good lube job, etc.
The Classic has a 18 3/8'' barrel, compared to the 16'' barrel of the Phantom, and I find it's a pretty accurate rifle. Also I find the wood stock does a good job of dampening the sound of the action.
As for parts, I think Airgun Source is a Crosman parts supplier, but there are others too.

Happy shooting!


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 18, 2015 9:56 pm 
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Location: United States
Aside from putting a hole in the piston it may have a weaker spring, longer piston, or variety of those. I've seen two different length pistons aside from the normal full power length, and three lighter springs. If it's just the hole in the piston then plug it and you're good to go. If it's a long piston you can either cut it shorter or replace with the one in the link you posted. One way to tell if you have a long piston is by how far the barrel cocks. If the barrel comes to ~4" of the trigger guard then you have a normal length full power piston, but it may have a hole.
The full power spring is ~.122" wire, so measure yours to be sure. Cocking effort can estimate spring strength too, with a full power spring being ~28lbs at peak effort.
So depending on the piston length (which determines the stroke), the piston hole (if used), and wire diameter they can control the power however they want. Why they have so many ways to reduce power I don't know, I'd think they'd just have one method for 177 and one for 22 and that's it. So you can estimate by the above methods but to be sure you'd need to open the gun up.
The trigger can be replaced with the one in the link, or you can mod the original trigger to do the same. So if you have the tools you may be able to do it all for free.


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PostPosted: Wed Aug 19, 2015 5:16 am 
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The trigger is a good starting point for mods. The one sold by CharliedaTuna is probably the best on the market. If your a tinkerer, you can modify yours, here's a useful link: topic49844.html. Or you can make your own, like I did. Either way, you can expect under 2 lb of trigger pull force, and a shorter pull length. Here are some pictures of mine compared to the original:


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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 5:15 pm 
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Great feedback guys, thank you for your input.
Im curious about the piston length and what you mean when you say its too long and etc.
Would it be a difficult task to shorten the piston?
What kind of tools/skill set would someone require to successfully finish the job.
Also, how long is too long? how much would you have to cut off the "extended" piston?
What should the end result in regards to length be?

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PostPosted: Mon Aug 24, 2015 9:32 pm 
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The oal of a full power is 150mm. The typical long one ~170. The one pix shows the two pistons, the other shows a long one cut down and new hole/slot for the trigger sear, which was done by a member here. So with the shorter piston you get ~20mm more stroke. There's at least one other long piston I know of and it would require much more work to shorten and will be obvious when you see it.
The pix are of nitro pistons but as far as the mod goes it's the same for coil. Just remember to bevel and smooth the inside and outside of the cut or the outside will tear up the gun and inside catch on the spring.
The placement of the hole for the trigger is important, too far fwd and either the piston, spring or linkage will bottom out first. Too far aft and you lose power. For the max power I'd put the hole as far fwd as possible, even cutting the cocking slot longer and piston shorter if needed to make it happen. It's about 1% or more power gain per mm of stroke, so it's up to you how important that is. The oem full power stroke is ~96mm, and you can usually squeeze a couple more w/o any trouble but after that is when you need to mod stuff.
If you want I can post a pix of a short oem piston with more detailed measurements if you like, such as where exactly the trigger hole is.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 01, 2015 11:40 pm 
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Chevota wrote:
The oal of a full power is 150mm. The typical long one ~170. The one pix shows the two pistons, the other shows a long one cut down and new hole/slot for the trigger sear, which was done by a member here. So with the shorter piston you get ~20mm more stroke. There's at least one other long piston I know of and it would require much more work to shorten and will be obvious when you see it.
The pix are of nitro pistons but as far as the mod goes it's the same for coil. Just remember to bevel and smooth the inside and outside of the cut or the outside will tear up the gun and inside catch on the spring.
The placement of the hole for the trigger is important, too far fwd and either the piston, spring or linkage will bottom out first. Too far aft and you lose power. For the max power I'd put the hole as far fwd as possible, even cutting the cocking slot longer and piston shorter if needed to make it happen. It's about 1% or more power gain per mm of stroke, so it's up to you how important that is. The oem full power stroke is ~96mm, and you can usually squeeze a couple more w/o any trouble but after that is when you need to mod stuff.
If you want I can post a pix of a short oem piston with more detailed measurements if you like, such as where exactly the trigger hole is.


You know what?, this is exactly the kind of explanatory details we are all looking forward to. Yes, please do post pix with more details ! : )
Thank you for your input Chevota, im sure a lot of people will benefit from your knowledge and know-hows in regards to the topic.

Anyone know what sort of tool/sanding paper (grade/grit) needed in regards to the "bevel and smooth the inside and outside" portion of the piston? this could apply to regular maintenance (in the case where someone has just bought a brand new Benji and wants to polish the insides) of the Classic or other such airguns?

Also, what about springs? is there a limit as to how strong or long they can be? Maximum? example, lets say I go out and find a overly long spring and it "happens" to fit inside the piston.. obviously, the chances are that other factors will play a role in this matter but, can one rest assure that the gun wont fall apart? in attempting such a mod?

Anyone know ideal places to search and purchase such long springs?

Please, anyone with experience; material or theoretical, share your insight and opinion.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 03, 2015 6:17 pm 
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You can thank your own Canadian folk who sent me those pix. I won't mention names because the mods may or may not be legal. I'm in the US so I've never seen those pistons in the flesh, but rooting thru pix people have sent me there are at least three long ones. Below I attached a better pix including all three compared to a std.
So the top one is the odd one that would be very difficult to shorten since the slot in the wrong spot and possibly too short. I don't know it's length but looks to be ~170mm.
Then a 170mm which seems to be the most common? So I'm told.
Then one that is clearly longer than 170 but I'm not sure, 190-200? Which is next to a full power.
Then the silver one is a coil spring piston from one of my guns.
Coil and nitro pistons are different but I don't know if they also made the lengths different. I suppose only Crosman knows how many crazy ideas and piston types they've played with.
So while a full power nitro and coil piston are a bit different, the external measurements are the same.
Yes I would bevel the inside and outside of any piston. The purpose of the inside bevel is so the coil spring doesn't catch on the edge, which doesn't really hurt anything but makes a ckink chink sound which I find annoying. A nitro gun doesn't need the inside beveled because nothing touches it (with the exception of one type of Crosman but that gun is another story).
The outer edge can scrape the inside of the receiver tube when cocked. Cocking forces the piston skirt up so it will scrape, and the piston is normally harder steel so any edge or burrs will tear up the softer receiver. A smooth rounded edge can surf over the softer metal of the receiver. Plus a sharp edge squeegees lube away, a beveled edge kinda surfs over the grease.
If you button the piston (like in the pix of the bare metal piston), which I think everyone should do, then the piston skirt shouldn't ever touch the receiver so problem solved. I would at least put a little bevel for the trigger sear, but I bevel both inside and out of all my pistons regardless, I'm just to anal to leave them unfinished.
You can use whatever tools are available I suppose, but being rather hard I think you need power tools unless you have all day. I use a Dremel with a diamond stone to grind the bevels, which I do at ~45 degrees to remove most of the meat, then I change to all angles so it's rounded. Once shaped I switch to a flapper sanding bit (80grit) to smooth it up, then a 320 sanding disc to make nice and smooth. All that I do with an inexpensive model 7300 cordless Dremel which I like because it's both cheap and slow. 120V Dremels spin way too fast imo for most anything, this model is excellent for all-around gun tuning work and a zillion other things.
As for cutting the new hole/slot for the trigger, it's probably easiest to just drill a hole, as long as it's in line with the cocking slot. A hole as small as 4mm could technically work, but to allow for slop and general lack of precision in the gun I'd make it 6mm, but bigger is ok. Making the rear edge of the hole flat like the oem hole/slot would be a plus, but not required. The rest of the hole is not important, just that back edge for the sear to catch. So the position of the back edge of the hole is what determines the pistons stroke I mentioned earlier.
Another cool thing for a coil spring piston is a plastic sheath/liner for the inside which prevents spring to piston contact. So not even the slightest chink sound and it greatly reduces twang when fired. And a full power gun will make more noise, and that noise bugs the #%&@! outta me, so I suggest that and/or spring tar to quiet it. So with a sheath inside and buttons on the outside the piston is basically floating, which also greatly reduces wear and lube requirements. The how-to for the liner and buttons is too much to post, but I have a tuning package that explains all this and much more if you/anyone want it. Email me at chevota at hotmail dot com and I'll send it. It has lots of pix with arrows and such, good stuff... Also trigger stuff. If you have the sheet metal trigger I'd buy a new one, but if you have the solid one then they can be made day and night better than they come outta the box.
Yes you can buy and use other springs in the gun, but to help be quiet they should be a close fit on the guide. The guides I have measure .4755” dia, and are steel so they can be squeezed in a vice to make squarish as needed to fit larger springs. My coil spring pistons vary between .790-.800” ID. They also have 1.5” spring spacer at the back that you can shorten or remove, so you do have some room to work with other springs. The full power spring is ~.1225” wire (probably intended to be 3.1mm), ~.730” OD, and ~35 coils and ~10.25” long. So compressed height is ~ 4.25”. So a larger .125 or even .128 wire is an option, and/or a longer spring. I suppose a compressed length ~5.9 should be possible.
The oem spring size is pretty close to ideal so it would take careful thought to make a better one. A spring that is simply stronger will be a dud in two ways; one is it will make all the negatives about springers worse, like cocking effort (obviously), noise, vibration, accuracy, scope issues etc will all get worse, and they'll get disproportionately worse as the spring gets stronger. Which leads to reason two; which is the power will be disproportionately less that what you might expect. So based on the guns design and displacement it'll make power up to a point, then taper off. Kinda like a car engine, you can rev it higher than its power band but you not only don't make more power but you break things. If you want more power you need a bigger engine, which is why magnum springers are physically larger. If you wanted more power than a magnum they'd need to be even larger still, but since magnums are already kinda too big, nobody is willing to make one so our power level is more or less stuck. If it was just a matter of a stronger spring then we could just use a higher pressure nitro or larger dia shaft and the sky's the limit, but it just doesn't work that way.
So, the full power Crosman is basically an 18ftlb gun, meaning it can make 18ftlbs with its flaws fixed. If you want less it's easy, reduce spring pressure. If you want more it gets more difficult as you go, my record being 20.4. I imagine a little more is possible but the drawbacks would make it not worth it.
Probably the biggest drawback to the oem spring is its metal and probably tempering quality are not the best. The spring is literally being pushed to its limit and that's where lower quality stuff breaks down. All the chinese springs I've had have taken a set to some degree, which costs some power but also makes it a smoother shooter and easier to cock. One problem is it's random, you don't know by how much the spring is going to weaken. Another problem is the spring will get canted or bent, and often in multiple places because the wire quality is inconsistent. The past year there have been a lot more complaints about the springs going unacceptably soft, so be wary. All my springs are 2-3+ years old so I'm guessing it happened sometime after that. So know that the dimensions of the oem spring is a very good match for the gun, it just needs to be better quality. If I could order whatever spring I wanted for free I suppose I'd get .125” wire with the same OD but 50 coils long, and most importantly it would be top quality US or German mfg. Then I could cut it to whatever I length/power I wanted to make it an ideal balance of power and drawbacks.
Nitro springs are another option, but more $ and not very reliable. They make at least two that fit the gun, three if you count the NP2 spring which is too strong for it. Possibly one or two I don't know about to adj for 500fps guns. But basically you have just one option for full power which is the standard one, # BT9M22-00-5, or BT9M22-00-5A. Not sure if there is a difference, mine seem the same.
Long @ss post but should answer your Q's?


Attachments:
All the CA pistons I know of.jpg
All the CA pistons I know of.jpg [ 35.58 KiB | Viewed 2143 times ]
Crosman Piston, Coil, 150mm.JPG
Crosman Piston, Coil, 150mm.JPG [ 58.89 KiB | Viewed 2143 times ]
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:08 pm 
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Chevota wrote:
You can thank your own Canadian folk who sent me those pix. I won't mention names because the mods may or may not be legal. I'm in the US so I've never seen those pistons in the flesh, but rooting thru pix people have sent me there are at least three long ones. Below I attached a better pix including all three compared to a std.
So the top one is the odd one that would be very difficult to shorten since the slot in the wrong spot and possibly too short. I don't know it's length but looks to be ~170mm.
Then a 170mm which seems to be the most common? So I'm told.
Then one that is clearly longer than 170 but I'm not sure, 190-200? Which is next to a full power.
Then the silver one is a coil spring piston from one of my guns.
Coil and nitro pistons are different but I don't know if they also made the lengths different. I suppose only Crosman knows how many crazy ideas and piston types they've played with.
So while a full power nitro and coil piston are a bit different, the external measurements are the same.
Yes I would bevel the inside and outside of any piston. The purpose of the inside bevel is so the coil spring doesn't catch on the edge, which doesn't really hurt anything but makes a ckink chink sound which I find annoying. A nitro gun doesn't need the inside beveled because nothing touches it (with the exception of one type of Crosman but that gun is another story).
The outer edge can scrape the inside of the receiver tube when cocked. Cocking forces the piston skirt up so it will scrape, and the piston is normally harder steel so any edge or burrs will tear up the softer receiver. A smooth rounded edge can surf over the softer metal of the receiver. Plus a sharp edge squeegees lube away, a beveled edge kinda surfs over the grease.
If you button the piston (like in the pix of the bare metal piston), which I think everyone should do, then the piston skirt shouldn't ever touch the receiver so problem solved. I would at least put a little bevel for the trigger sear, but I bevel both inside and out of all my pistons regardless, I'm just to anal to leave them unfinished.
You can use whatever tools are available I suppose, but being rather hard I think you need power tools unless you have all day. I use a Dremel with a diamond stone to grind the bevels, which I do at ~45 degrees to remove most of the meat, then I change to all angles so it's rounded. Once shaped I switch to a flapper sanding bit (80grit) to smooth it up, then a 320 sanding disc to make nice and smooth. All that I do with an inexpensive model 7300 cordless Dremel which I like because it's both cheap and slow. 120V Dremels spin way too fast imo for most anything, this model is excellent for all-around gun tuning work and a zillion other things.
As for cutting the new hole/slot for the trigger, it's probably easiest to just drill a hole, as long as it's in line with the cocking slot. A hole as small as 4mm could technically work, but to allow for slop and general lack of precision in the gun I'd make it 6mm, but bigger is ok. Making the rear edge of the hole flat like the oem hole/slot would be a plus, but not required. The rest of the hole is not important, just that back edge for the sear to catch. So the position of the back edge of the hole is what determines the pistons stroke I mentioned earlier.
Another cool thing for a coil spring piston is a plastic sheath/liner for the inside which prevents spring to piston contact. So not even the slightest chink sound and it greatly reduces twang when fired. And a full power gun will make more noise, and that noise bugs the #%&@! outta me, so I suggest that and/or spring tar to quiet it. So with a sheath inside and buttons on the outside the piston is basically floating, which also greatly reduces wear and lube requirements. The how-to for the liner and buttons is too much to post, but I have a tuning package that explains all this and much more if you/anyone want it. Email me at chevota at hotmail dot com and I'll send it. It has lots of pix with arrows and such, good stuff... Also trigger stuff. If you have the sheet metal trigger I'd buy a new one, but if you have the solid one then they can be made day and night better than they come outta the box.
Yes you can buy and use other springs in the gun, but to help be quiet they should be a close fit on the guide. The guides I have measure .4755” dia, and are steel so they can be squeezed in a vice to make squarish as needed to fit larger springs. My coil spring pistons vary between .790-.800” ID. They also have 1.5” spring spacer at the back that you can shorten or remove, so you do have some room to work with other springs. The full power spring is ~.1225” wire (probably intended to be 3.1mm), ~.730” OD, and ~35 coils and ~10.25” long. So compressed height is ~ 4.25”. So a larger .125 or even .128 wire is an option, and/or a longer spring. I suppose a compressed length ~5.9 should be possible.
The oem spring size is pretty close to ideal so it would take careful thought to make a better one. A spring that is simply stronger will be a dud in two ways; one is it will make all the negatives about springers worse, like cocking effort (obviously), noise, vibration, accuracy, scope issues etc will all get worse, and they'll get disproportionately worse as the spring gets stronger. Which leads to reason two; which is the power will be disproportionately less that what you might expect. So based on the guns design and displacement it'll make power up to a point, then taper off. Kinda like a car engine, you can rev it higher than its power band but you not only don't make more power but you break things. If you want more power you need a bigger engine, which is why magnum springers are physically larger. If you wanted more power than a magnum they'd need to be even larger still, but since magnums are already kinda too big, nobody is willing to make one so our power level is more or less stuck. If it was just a matter of a stronger spring then we could just use a higher pressure nitro or larger dia shaft and the sky's the limit, but it just doesn't work that way.
So, the full power Crosman is basically an 18ftlb gun, meaning it can make 18ftlbs with its flaws fixed. If you want less it's easy, reduce spring pressure. If you want more it gets more difficult as you go, my record being 20.4. I imagine a little more is possible but the drawbacks would make it not worth it.
Probably the biggest drawback to the oem spring is its metal and probably tempering quality are not the best. The spring is literally being pushed to its limit and that's where lower quality stuff breaks down. All the chinese springs I've had have taken a set to some degree, which costs some power but also makes it a smoother shooter and easier to cock. One problem is it's random, you don't know by how much the spring is going to weaken. Another problem is the spring will get canted or bent, and often in multiple places because the wire quality is inconsistent. The past year there have been a lot more complaints about the springs going unacceptably soft, so be wary. All my springs are 2-3+ years old so I'm guessing it happened sometime after that. So know that the dimensions of the oem spring is a very good match for the gun, it just needs to be better quality. If I could order whatever spring I wanted for free I suppose I'd get .125” wire with the same OD but 50 coils long, and most importantly it would be top quality US or German mfg. Then I could cut it to whatever I length/power I wanted to make it an ideal balance of power and drawbacks.
Nitro springs are another option, but more $ and not very reliable. They make at least two that fit the gun, three if you count the NP2 spring which is too strong for it. Possibly one or two I don't know about to adj for 500fps guns. But basically you have just one option for full power which is the standard one, # BT9M22-00-5, or BT9M22-00-5A. Not sure if there is a difference, mine seem the same.
Long @ss post but should answer your Q's?


You ARE awesome, Thank you on behalf of everyone who will read and learn from your postings, Ive seen you in other sites passing adv. to others as well.. Thank you ! Chevota and everyone else who has shared their knowledge with the community or given their input and advice.

I spent the day today polishing the insides of my gun and wew, It runs better than it did brand new !!!!!!!!!!!! I doubt there were any speed increases but I wouldnt be surprised if there were seeing as the standard machining from the factory was crap.
I spent hours sanding with my hand and the cock'ing action is smooth and so much easier. Moly lubed the insides after cleaning it and now I can rest assure that my Benji will hopefully last a lifetime and provide loads of fun :)

I love learning and threrfore would like this post to grow with more insight and feedback so I shall yet again ask some more questions ;)

Most of the Benjamin Classic "mods" have been already discussed here except one topic which I want to address.

SPRINGS !!@%^*

I hear all this talk about Magnum Springs or something along those lines... and there is always this talk about using a spring compressor but I ask "for what?" lol. The springs are so small in the classic and it makes me wonder if spring compressors are even nessary 'mind you that we are talking 495 fps springs lolol...

What do you think? Is it possible (hypothetically) to get a larger spring installed onto the Benjamin Classic .22?
Something that just "might" require a spring compressor ;)?

A name, or suggestion in the right direction would be much appreciated from anyone who is reading this post ! ;D

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 8:48 pm 
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Yes, but that question bring on another question. Do you have a current PAL?

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 08, 2015 9:29 pm 
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Without Prejudice.

The question was bound to be asked.
So Ill clarify Canadian Law as it is said in our Constitution.
Everything discussed by me is intended for educational purposes only.

*All discussion on the thread is for the purposes of education*

Constitution Act, 1982

s 1. Rights and freedoms in Canada

1. The Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees the rights and freedoms set out in it subject only to such reasonable limits prescribed by law as can be demonstrably justified in a free and democratic society.

s 2. Fundamental freedoms

2. Everyone has the following fundamental freedoms:
(a) freedom of conscience and religion;
(b) freedom of thought, belief, opinion and expression, including freedom of the press and other media of communication;
(c) freedom of peaceful assembly; and
(d) freedom of association.

Sorry If I didn't answer your question there buddy. Apologies if anything I'm inquiring about is against your belief but it is merely to stay informed and help others do the same. I have not, nor do I intend to break the law in any way, form or shape.

Reference: Google, http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/const/page-15.html , WestlawNext, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_ ... d_Freedoms

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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 1:07 am 
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Here endeth the morning lesson. :roll:


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PostPosted: Wed Sep 09, 2015 6:01 pm 
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Posts: 1278
Location: United States
I've never needed a compressor on a coil spring gun, and don't use one on most gas springs either. The spring in the NP2 and the older gun it was based on takes more like 230lbs to compress, which is more than I weigh. I can get it apart, just not back together. A full power Crosman coil spring is easy, I can even compress it with my thumb. A stronger spring that will fit in there isn't much stronger so still easy.
Aside from custom springs I think the strongest that will fit is the Vortek 790128. The 790 is the OD, the 128 is the wire, so easy to figure out what their springs are. The full power Crosman measurements are 730122, but Vortek doesn't make one in that size that I know of. Their 780125 is probably the closest to oem. They have one they sell for Crosman guns that's 730120, which I tried but it was a dud costing several ftlbs power. Great quality and will probably last forever, but not what I wanted. Maccari sells springs too but most don't have dimensions or even what gun it's supposed to fit. There's also a place in the UK that sells springs, including square wire which has the potential to be stronger, but not sure if any are. I think they're called OX? I imagine shipping would kill the price.
I think the oem full power nitro is probably as strong or stronger than any coil, and is imo a bit outside that line of balance between power and drawbacks. Tuning the gun allows you get more power from it and reduce the drawbacks making it close to ideal. It takes ~170lbs to compress those.
Then there's the nitro from the NP2 if you really wanted to push spring strength but I think it's too much. It's a little shorter than the std Crosman nitro but will fit with a few shims or whatever. The shafts are more or less the same length, but the NP2 body is ~4mm shorter.
The nitro piston is different than a coil piston, and the butt end is different too so it all depends on how you make the conversion happen, which I can explain if you want to go there.
Meanwhile here's a pix of a std nitro (top) and the NP2 nitro. The std nitros tend to leak, which is what happened to this one.
The NP2 nitro gets is extra strength from more internal pressure. I estimate the std @ 100bar and the NP2 @ 200bar.


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std vs NP2.JPG
std vs NP2.JPG [ 76.7 KiB | Viewed 2011 times ]
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