Canadian Airgun Forum

Thanks Murray!

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-Rick

Brocock Concept .22
3 Crosman MK 1 pistol .22

If your buying a "magnum" for fun (kick)... don't get the S&W 460/500 with the brake, you'll be disappointed because the brake does a pretty darn good job at taming recoil and muzzle flip (which is half the fun of shooting a magnum).

It's like getting a 427 Cobra, and installing traction control and ABS brake... Sure, the car would be more manageable, but how much fun would that be?


I think you'd have more fun with a "Canada" legal 629



Personally, I like the Redhawk better





If we could carry (for bear defence), I'd get a 5'' Ruger Super Redhawk in 454


The nice thing with the 460, is that it would allow you to shoot 454 and 45LC.

If you're looking for BBQ gun, get a BFR in 45/70

I've been shooting and "wearing out" M29 4" bl. .44 mags since 1973 when I bought my first one, complete in mahogany box. In 3 years, I sold the "now sloppy" gun and purchased a new one. My first S&W 'took' only about 6,000 rounds of 22gr. Herc. 2400 and 275gr. Keith-style bullets to make it sloppy and failing to index shooting DA. It spit lead out the sides of the cylinder something fierce, due to not aligning properly with the barrel. I could have sent it away to be repaired, but at that time, didn't want to be without it for a few months, so I sold it & bought another new one.

The first 3 months I owned my first M29, I went through 1,500 rounds a month learning how to shoot the gun. 6" groups at 100 yards were the norm from a sitting position, gun pulled up between my knees. I sewed leather patches inside the knees to protect my legs from lead splash and spitting powder. My 'best' shooting was at an 18" steel target at 325yards on "The Little Chief" granite face, at the Squamish R&Gun club. Those were the days. I was able to hit it 6 for 6 once, but 5 out of 6 was the norm - 4" bl. remember.

I bought the 4" after a phone conversation with Elmer Keith, then living in Salmon Idaho. I already owned his book, "Sixguns by Keith". I still have the book. No - it isn't for sale.

My next M29 4" was used with 17gr. 2400 and 250 Keith-style bullets in .44 Spl. brass for IPSC shooting - THAT was fun. 1,200fps with 250gr. SWC's. It was wonderful on the steel plates and 12 rounds on a sil. in 9 seconds will get your attention. Jerry M. did it in something like 2 seconds including the draw, using a little 9mm with full moon clips.

I think a "new to reloading" person has not done enough shooting yet - to be able to handle a .460 mag. or have the wrist strength to handle the extremely heavy .500 mag. A .44 is probably too much as well.

The newer .44 mag. S&W's are much stronger than the older ones. The Ruger Redhawk & Super Redhawk revolvers are stronger yet. All today are capable of handing many more full power loads than the earlier than 1990's S&W's.

The .44 does kick a lot- or not, depending on how it's loaded. Last summer I met a new couple at our range and they invited me to shoot their 8"? S&W .500 mag with factory ammo. That day, I was shooting my little 4 5/8" Blackhawk .357 with 158's at about 1,400fps, as well as my .44 4". That day, I had the little round-butt grips on her, which limited the amount of hand 'purchase' I had on the gun - those grips are the little finger short as it wraps around the bottom of the grip, not on it. With 20gr. W295 and a 300gr. Truncated cone commercial cast bullet, the recoil was literally "stinging" and that is putting it mildly.

To get an idea what that felt like: Stand in front of an oak desk. Raise your hand above your head, palm open, fingers spread wide. Now, slam your flat palm down onto the top of the desk as hard as you can - THERE - you just fired one shot. Most people cannot stand to have that much fun.

There is very little muzzle rise with the 4" barrel S&W .44 mag. The gun comes almost straight back, with only a slight flip and twist. You feel the concussion on your chest. The now 6" but used to be 5" & 6 1/2" as well as the newer and older 8 3/8" have much more muzzle rise than the 4". They feel they have less felt recoil, of course, due to the rising weight of the gun absorbing recoil energy instead of it coming back into the hand and arm - worst, elbow and shoulders.

By all means, get a .44 magnum first and learn to shoot it before going to something rougher.

The 6" or 7 1/2"? .500 'braked' magnum actually felt like it had less recoil than my 4" .44 that day. I was shooting the 300gr. bullets with the little grips - not a lot of fun. with the .500, I was able to blast fist sized rocks on the 50 meter bank. There was a lot more roar than my .44, but with it's extreme weight, it was easier to hit with at the longer ranges. With the muzzle flip, recovering form recoil to get back onto the targets was very much slower. seems to me, the ammo was well over $1.00 per shot. That's expensive.

All of the components for the .500 are more expensive and it uses more powder as well. Powder today, especially the ones you want, are difficult to find in the stores.

I bought my first .44 magnum used, in it's Mahogany box in 1973 - from Harkley & Haywood's gun shop in Vancouver. With the revolver, I received with it, 1 full box (50RNDS) of Remington 240gr. factory + 44 rounds same ammo with the 6 fired empties. Those 6 empties were the only rounds the first owner fired from that gun. He couldn't stand to have any more fun than those 6 shots. I paid $200.00 for it. He traded it in on a M27. For those who don't recognize the model, that's a .357 Magnum- which gave him all the fun he was prepared to enjoy. For someone not an accomplished handgun shot, a .44 mag will be more than they are willing to shoot. Of course, one can use .44 Spl. ammo, factory (expensive) or handloads in SPL brass, or load the .44mag brass to +P .44SPL. levels in .44 mag. brass.

If I were you, I'd leave the .460 and .500's to long-time handgun shooters. They (& and .44 for that matter) can and will invoke EXTREME flinching - guaranteed.

In a modern high strength revolver like the Freedom Arms or Rugers, the .45 Colt can be loaded to .44 mag. ballistics, yes. The .45 Casul is even more powerful and can use .45 colt brass. For heavy .45 colt loads, Casul brass should be used. Some makes of .45 Colt brass are not very strong - WW comes to mind. Federal is much better and RP is the strongest .45 Colt brass.

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Best Wishes
Daryl

I've known Daryl for three years and have to be in complete agreement with him. I too read the stories of Elmer Keith and I too plunked 240gr .44Mag bullets out past 300 meters with iron sights breaking rocks or knocking down the ram at silhouette ranges for lots of years. I used a Ruger Redhawk in Stainless with 7 1/2" barrel and made my own front sights as they were easily interchangeable. I also owned a .454 Casul for hunting elk when I lived in WA state. Great gun with tons of strength and power and excellent trigger.

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-Rick

Brocock Concept .22
3 Crosman MK 1 pistol .22

The great Elmer Keith:

Posing with an elephant shot in Africa.

In his big-game trophy room.

Truly a man's man.

More photos of the African hunting exploits of Elmer Keith.

And Elmer Keith's impressive Big-Game Trophy room.

Whip out your rulers and calipers, Rrdstarr, and let the measuring begin.

Elmer told me I should get a 4" M29 for my duty gun - I concurred and did just that, although our issue revolver was a M10 S&W .38spl.

I still have my correspondence with Elmer, as well as P.O. Ackley.

Elmer's gun collection brought in just around $16 million US., last fall at auction.

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Best Wishes
Daryl

I had correspondence with P.O. Ackley when I was working on my .375/.50BMG loads. I was asking about shoulder angles and starting loads. Was using .50BMG Powder and once fired cases. It was a lot harder finding primers and powder for .50BMG in the early '80's when I got really interested in distances over 1200 yds. Tough to find someone who made heavier .375 bullets too!

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-Rick

Brocock Concept .22
3 Crosman MK 1 pistol .22

Yes - Woodleigh is the only game in town now, for overweight bullets, it seems.

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Best Wishes
Daryl

GOLD STAR for rrdstarr......

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"A candle loses nothing by lighting another candle"

Would he be the same P.O. Ackley who brought forth the large bore .450 Ackley and .475 Ackley Magnum calibers so that men poorly endowed with tiny todgers can go big game trophy hunting?

Perhaps some are disappointed to discover that on this forum and elsewhere in this country there aren't a lot of supporters of shooting animals as trophies. Don't blame Walter Palmer, the American dentist who shot Cecil the lion. Most people in this great hunting land have long understood that hunting should not be about the trophy room or killing an animal because it is large or rare. It should be about the kitchen table and the spirit of ethical hunting.

X10!!

cough, hork, spit.....as mu daddy always said, (spit once more) Horns are like tracks...they make a poor soup....

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May the cry of the pack be with you upon your hunt

Whitewolf