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 Post subject: Airgun moose hunting?
PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 4:12 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 24, 2015 4:56 pm
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Location: SW Ontario
Check out the new Umarex Hammer 50 cal. 700+fpe air rifle. Also near the end of the video the Havox ammo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyEuKtP ... r_embedded


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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 6:32 am 
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I once tried hunting moose with an airgun... :D

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PostPosted: Thu May 18, 2017 7:08 pm 
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Location: Alberta Canada
I'm more interested in the Havox ammo in 30 cal and larger for a hunting round.
Will wait patiently upon the hyped up reviews upon the 700 fpe from these Umerax Big Bores when they hit the general public. Too bad with their said shroud esign they most likely wont be availble in Canuck land unless Umerax makes an export model.

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 3:26 am 
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I know the author was probably going for the funny, but.....

Using a 700fpe round on a large game animal like moose borders on criminal in my opinion.

Your shot placement would have to be 100% perfect, 100% of the time and not hit any large locomotive muscles nor shoulder bones, you have no hydrostatic shock, no expansion, no hope of a through and through shot (so no blood trail).

I shot a 1000lb+ Bull at 75 yards in Armstrong Ontario, many moons ago.

.375 H&H Mag, 300gr. Over 2 TONS of muzzle energy. Placement was directly behind the shoulder. The impact sound was like a beaver slapping the water.....That moose was stone dead, except he didn't know it. He went through the bush for at least 10 minutes (we were sitting having a smoke and waiting).

Bullet had totally destroyed lungs and other organs, but only nicked heart. Expanded to the size of a quarter and was found under the skin on the far side.

Yes, yes, I know Elmer Kieth or Jack O'Conner could take a rhinoceros with a .270 but you can bet your a s s he had a .460 Weatherby Mag with solids as a backup. I've also read many, many stories of migrating reindeer being taken with a .22, primarily because they are standing around like dairy cows I guess.

I've taken at least a dozen deer, including a few very large bucks. 30.06, .444 Marlin, .308, .32 Winchester Special, etc. Seen everything from a shot deer standing still for 30 seconds like nothing happened, then falling over dead, to jumping 3 feet in the air, to taking off with a blown out chest cavity. You can never tell whats going to happen.

Bullet design is also critical, but that is a 50 page discussion for some other time.

Still, one of those big bore high fpe airguns would be way cool to own I have to admit.

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 6:55 am 
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ITGUY wrote:
I know the author was probably going for the funny, but.....

Using a 700fpe round on a large game animal like moose borders on criminal in my opinion.

Your shot placement would have to be 100% perfect, 100% of the time and not hit any large locomotive muscles nor shoulder bones, you have no hydrostatic shock, no expansion, no hope of a through and through shot (so no blood trail).

I shot a 1000lb+ Bull at 75 yards in Armstrong Ontario, many moons ago.

.375 H&H Mag, 300gr. Over 2 TONS of muzzle energy. Placement was directly behind the shoulder. The impact sound was like a beaver slapping the water.....That moose was stone dead, except he didn't know it. He went through the bush for at least 10 minutes (we were sitting having a smoke and waiting).

Bullet had totally destroyed lungs and other organs, but only nicked heart. Expanded to the size of a quarter and was found under the skin on the far side.

Yes, yes, I know Elmer Kieth or Jack O'Conner could take a rhinoceros with a .270 but you can bet your a s s he had a .460 Weatherby Mag with solids as a backup. I've also read many, many stories of migrating reindeer being taken with a .22, primarily because they are standing around like dairy cows I guess.

I've taken at least a dozen deer, including a few very large bucks. 30.06, .444 Marlin, .308, .32 Winchester Special, etc. Seen everything from a shot deer standing still for 30 seconds like nothing happened, then falling over dead, to jumping 3 feet in the air, to taking off with a blown out chest cavity. You can never tell whats going to happen.

Bullet design is also critical, but that is a 50 page discussion for some other time.

Still, one of those big bore high fpe airguns would be way cool to own I have to admit.

X 2......absolutely...I've seen moose up here in NWO with antlers as wide as your truck...Can't imagine using ANY air gun on these buggers....which is the reason I posted a funny. :D

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:06 am 
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Location: Dryden, Ontario
I'll second that.Powder burners only.Best to be sure the fpe and fps is sufficient to reach out and do a clean kill.I don't think its there with 700fpe. at the muzzle.


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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 8:36 am 
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Location: Winnipeg, Canada
Let's not go overboard on this. Moose are taken on a regular basis with 150 lb draw weight bows. So are elk, which is a similar sized, better tasting animal. Over on the in-law's side there's a couple that swear by the 30/30 for their moose~ and they bag them annually like clockwork. Can almost set my watch by these guys...

From what I've seen personally, big game bullets can be a crapshoot. This is especially true of the dept store soft points with penetration failures. And then there are those "custom" bullets that fail to open up...

O'Connor was more of an elk hunter than a moose hunter. So was Keith. Both happened to be successful at their endeavours, and were fortunate enough to have a ready and willing audience waiting for their monthly adventure reports. That was 3 generations ago, now. Their writing did more to improve bullet construction, and load development than anything else. A lot of their points remain valid to this day. We are fortunate with ammunition availability today that these men could not have even dreamed of...

If you are going to hunt big game, do your research, and practice your bullet placement....
Is a 700 fpe airgun enough for moose? I dunno. I'll sit and wait, and read the reports when they come out. Personally, I think there are better choices than that, but that's just me.

-D.S.

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:14 am 
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I was waiting for the bow analogy. Apples and oranges. A broadhead kills by bleeding the animal out. It may walk around for 30 minutes not even knowing it has been hit.

Anyway Doc, I should have started my post with "in my opinion: I suppose....

Anecdote: Was there when a large black bear was hit with a broadhead from my friends 150lb compound bow. Nothing happened, arrow went through and through. Just stood there. So he put another one in it. That one hit something and stuck in halfway.

That bear went insane, taking down saplings trying to get the arrow out. Then took off. My GPS said 1.1 miles til we found it, through the most miserable Northern Ontario bush you've ever seen.

I'll stick with firearms thanks.

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 9:46 am 
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ITGUY wrote:

Anyway Doc, I should have started my post with "in my opinion: I suppose....

I'll stick with firearms thanks.


Got me laughing there....

Never been much of a fan of blood trailing myself. Seems like a lot of work.
Ran into a guy in eastern Manitoba with a cross-bow and a brace of bunnies and grouse. He wasn't using broadheads on those- the target points were good enough for the close ranges he was shooting at. According to him, instant anchoring on the grouse and rabbits. THAT I wouldn't mind trying :mrgreen:

I just happen to agree on the firearms for big game myself. I do however, try to keep an open mind.

-D.S.

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 12:31 pm 
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ITGUY - Elmer Keith would never touch a .270, let alone use one for hunting. Jack O'Connor, the .270 guy, used a .375 in Africa. Also - by his own admission, on Canadian moose(mostly Alberta),

using his .270 and WW Silvertip 130's, he averaged 3.8 shots to kill a moose. I really don't think Jack was a good shot, or perhaps actually suffered from severe buck fever.

My buddy's wife uses her Browning lever-gun in .243 for moose, elk and deer - every year, one shot for each. She can shoot. I'm going to use my .243 WTBY this year, or the .243 Ruger International,

or maybe my Winchester 1876 Centennial in .50/95 - That might be fun!

Elmer also liked a .375H&H or .400 Whelen for N.A. game and .465 or .500NE for African game was his norm.

I think you might find it illegal to hunt big game with an air rifle in most Provinces. In BC - Centre Fire Rifles only while shotguns can be used for deer, wolves/coyotes and bear.

Use of round ball in a Flintlock Smoothbore was condoned on the Stewart Lake moose hunt by the game branch. That comes to about 1,500fpe at the muzzle.

My cap-lock 14 bore moose rifle runs 2,572fpe and is the same design and calibre (& load) preferred in the 1850's for Tiger, Elephant and Water Buffalo in India when carried by the 'sportsman' himself.

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 4:49 pm 
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Daryl wrote:
ITGUY - Elmer Keith would never touch a .270, let alone use one for hunting. Jack O'Connor, the .270 guy, used a .375 in Africa. Also - by his own admission, on Canadian moose(mostly Alberta),

using his .270 and WW Silvertip 130's, he averaged 3.8 shots to kill a moose. I really don't think Jack was a good shot, or perhaps actually suffered from severe buck fever.

My buddy's wife uses her Browning lever-gun in .243 for moose, elk and deer - every year, one shot for each. She can shoot. I'm going to use my .243 WTBY this year, or the .243 Ruger International,

or maybe my Winchester 1876 Centennial in .50/95 - That might be fun!

Elmer also liked a .375H&H or .400 Whelen for N.A. game and .465 or .500NE for African game was his norm.

I think you might find it illegal to hunt big game with an air rifle in most Provinces. In BC - Centre Fire Rifles only while shotguns can be used for deer, wolves/coyotes and bear.

Use of round ball in a Flintlock Smoothbore was condoned on the Stewart Lake moose hunt by the game branch. That comes to about 1,500fpe at the muzzle.

My cap-lock 14 bore moose rifle runs 2,572fpe and is the same design and calibre (& load) preferred in the 1850's for Tiger, Elephant and Water Buffalo in India when carried by the 'sportsman' himself.


Yup, you are 100% correct. Elmer was a big-bore guy through and through but I had a big paragraph written up, then Rogers started going up and down, then I lost some cut and paste, then lost Jack entirely....the post came out all wrong.

Elmer called the .270 a damn good coyote gun or something like that. He didn't have much use for Jack either.

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 7:49 pm 
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I'm pretty sure no one is knocking the .270 here lol, but thought I'd chime in anyway. I've shot all my Moose and elk with the 270 winchester, (only 4 Moose and 3 elk lol) well, maybe I used my 6. 5x55 on one elk, can't remember now, anyway my Dad has probably shot 20 Moose with his 270 and is usually the most successful Moose hunter in our camp, so all that to say I think the 270 is more than adequate for Moose! Ha and this is a thread about Moose hunting with airguns, so I'm way off track.!
I did watch a video on YouTube of these guys shooting huge white tailed bucks in Saskatchewan with big bore air rifles. Here is the link for those interested. Pretty cool, they used arrows in their guns instead of bullets. Made it legal somehow, though the game guide I looked at this year says it isn't legal, anymore anyway. https://youtu.be/bUsgCG9j42M

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 10:11 pm 
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Back to the humor (maybe not) of hunting a moose with an Airgun.
It took 7 years worth of letters to the MLA and Minister in Alberta of Lands and Resources to acknowledge the use of an air pistol for the use of Upland birds. Couple years ago was it's first acknowledgement of its use in the Big Game Synopsis. It was always acepted by Fish and Wildlife officers that the use was not illegal, with a valid licence.
This fall we are into 10 yrs worth of letters to acknowledge the use of Big Bore Airguns for the purpose of Big Game Hunting in Alberta.
Now the use of an arrow fired from an Airgun in Saskatchewan deemed it a varient of Crossbow. Bit of a grey area but proven as lethal as that of any recurve, compound or crossbow availble upon the market.
So if it's what you would like to accomplish fir a big game hunt. Write your Minister and MLA. Perseverance has the opportunity to succeed. It's upto you as a hunter to educate those who amend and write our laws within our Provinces. JMHO

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:00 pm 
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Seems SK closed this door in 2016, not sure why. Here is the from the SK regulations: It is a violation to: hunt big game with pneumatic firearms or devices propelling arrows, crossbow bolts or projectiles by compressed air, nitrogen, CO or any other gas

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PostPosted: Fri May 19, 2017 11:02 pm 
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(page 17 of the guide) hopefully they'll eventually come around! As they say in the video, the arrows are packing more fpe than any compound bow can deliver

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