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 Post subject: Storage
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 4:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:34 pm
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Location: Bowmanville, Ontario
I'm taking the PAL course today. On a break, some I testing questions come up that have no real answers.

Apparently, you cannot store a firearm and ammunition in the same cabinet safe, it has to be seperated. But they do not define what "seperate" means.
So, the logical thing is in a safe with a trigger lock and you can store everything together. Or so it seems.
Now, what about pal rated air guns and pellets? Are pellets considered ammunition? Not allowed to be stored in the same safe?

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Fully rebuilt Benjamin .22 classic
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 Post subject: Re: Storage
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 5:30 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 01, 2009 3:23 pm
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Location: Northern Ontario
Carpenter84 wrote:
I'm taking the PAL course today. On a break, some I testing questions come up that have no real answers.

Apparently, you cannot store a firearm and ammunition in the same cabinet safe, it has to be seperated. But they do not define what "seperate" means.
So, the logical thing is in a safe with a trigger lock and you can store everything together. Or so it seems.
Now, what about pal rated air guns and pellets? Are pellets considered ammunition? Not allowed to be stored in the same safe?


Pellets are not ammunition. You need a PAL to purchase ammunition, you do not need one to buy pellets. You can also buy primers, brass, powders, and bullets without a PAL, but you cant have them assembled unless you do.

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 Post subject: Re: Storage
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:09 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:32 pm
Posts: 734
Location: Burlington ON
RCMP website:
"Store the ammunition separately or lock it up. It can be stored in the same locked container as the firearms."


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 Post subject: Re: Storage
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 6:48 pm 
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Location: Bowmanville, Ontario
A container, yes. He said you can keep the gun and ammo in the same container, but if it's a locked cabinet or safe, apparently it's different. Or so I'm told.

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Fully rebuilt Benjamin .22 classic
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 Post subject: Re: Storage
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 20, 2014 10:32 pm
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Location: Burlington ON
No idea, as far as I can see container = cabinet /safe.


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 Post subject: Re: Storage
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 7:16 pm 
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Location: Northern Ontario
I was told by a firearms officer in Ontario when the "safe storage" laws came into effect that it was fine to store ammo in a gun safe with guns, as long as they are not loaded.

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 Post subject: Re: Storage
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 8:14 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
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Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
There is a big difference between a cabinet and a safe. Some might tell you a stack on sheet metal meets the requirements of a safe. But the police might not.

As long as Ive own guns. They never met the requirements.


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 Post subject: Re: Storage
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:17 pm 
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Location: Burlington ON
Applies to restricted: In a cabinet like a stack-on you need a trigger lock as well. In a safe, you do not.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-f ... ge-eng.htm


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 Post subject: Re: Storage
PostPosted: Sat Sep 08, 2018 9:23 pm 
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Location: Bowmanville, Ontario
I bought trigger locks today during my lengthy waiting periods wondering the store. They were $11 each. Small price to cover my butt.

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Shawn


Fully rebuilt Benjamin .22 classic
Some other junk rifles


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 Post subject: Re: Storage
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:03 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 1994
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
paddyfritz wrote:
Carpenter84 wrote:
I'm taking the PAL course today. On a break, some I testing questions come up that have no real answers.

Apparently, you cannot store a firearm and ammunition in the same cabinet safe, it has to be seperated. But they do not define what "seperate" means.
So, the logical thing is in a safe with a trigger lock and you can store everything together. Or so it seems.
Now, what about pal rated air guns and pellets? Are pellets considered ammunition? Not allowed to be stored in the same safe?


Pellets are not ammunition. You need a PAL to purchase ammunition, you do not need one to buy pellets. You can also buy primers, brass, powders, and bullets without a PAL, but you cant have them assembled unless you do.


I believe it has changed. Alot of stores are requiring you to show your license for Primers/PAL purchases. Alot of stores are putting PAL required for purchase of powder and primers.

Funny need a PAL to purchase a PAL rated airgun. But anyone over 18 can buy a non pal rated airgun and purchase a gas piston or spring to bump it over 500 FPS. Funny how easy people can break the law.


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 Post subject: Re: Storage
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 9:50 am 
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Location: Northern Ontario
leadslinger wrote:
paddyfritz wrote:
Carpenter84 wrote:
I'm taking the PAL course today. On a break, some I testing questions come up that have no real answers.

Apparently, you cannot store a firearm and ammunition in the same cabinet safe, it has to be seperated. But they do not define what "seperate" means.
So, the logical thing is in a safe with a trigger lock and you can store everything together. Or so it seems.
Now, what about pal rated air guns and pellets? Are pellets considered ammunition? Not allowed to be stored in the same safe?


Pellets are not ammunition. You need a PAL to purchase ammunition, you do not need one to buy pellets. You can also buy primers, brass, powders, and bullets without a PAL, but you cant have them assembled unless you do.


I believe it has changed. Alot of stores are requiring you to show your license for Primers/PAL purchases. Alot of stores are putting PAL required for purchase of powder and primers.

Funny need a PAL to purchase a PAL rated airgun. But anyone over 18 can buy a non pal rated airgun and purchase a gas piston or spring to bump it over 500 FPS. Funny how easy people can break the law.


You dont need a pal for reloading supplies. Some online retailers are asking for it as proof of age. They will accept gov ID in place of a PAL.

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 Post subject: Re: Storage
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2018 10:02 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 1994
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
paddyfritz wrote:
You dont need a pal for reloading supplies. Some online retailers are asking for it as proof of age. They will accept gov ID in place of a PAL.


Seems like few places keeps a registry of this stuff. Like with Ontario and keeping track of ammo sales.


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 Post subject: Re: Storage
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 2:00 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 11, 2011 2:27 am
Posts: 323
I just copied and pasted this from an older thread I responded to on the same subject:

I searched the firearms act and, the criminal code and the explosives acts for definitions. The firearms act search didn't give me a definition but the criminal code says:

84 (1) In this Part,

ammunition means a cartridge containing a projectile designed to be discharged from a firearm and, without restricting the generality of the foregoing, includes a caseless cartridge and a shot shell; (munitions)

The explosives act contains this:

13. (1) “Ammunition” means an explosive of any class when enclosed in a case or contrivance or otherwise adapted or prepared so as to form a cartridge or charge for small arms, cannon, any other weapon, or for blasting, or so as to form any safety or other fuse for blasting or shells, or so as to form any tube for firing explosives, or so as to form a percussion cap, detonator, shell, torpedo, war rocket or other contrivance other than a firework.

The firearms act does state:

Authorization to transfer ammunition to individuals

25 A person may transfer ammunition that is not prohibited ammunition to an individual only if the individual

(a) until January 1, 2001, holds a licence authorizing him or her to possess firearms or a prescribed document; or

(b) after January 1, 2001, holds a licence authorizing him or her to possess firearms.

Given all this and the fact that pellets, BB's, CO2 cartridges, high pressure air tanks and refills etc. don't require a PAL to purchase I would hazard a guess that what we use in airguns doesn't legally qualify as ammunition. Storing it safely still makes sense though so I do keep things separated and locked up.


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 Post subject: Re: Storage
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2018 6:13 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2018 10:34 pm
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Location: Bowmanville, Ontario
Thanks for taking the time to write that. Some of the firearms laws sure do fall into a gray area.
It does make sense that pellets wouldn’t quality. It is not more of a hazard in of itself than a small pebble. I can physically throw neither any great speed or distance.

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Fully rebuilt Benjamin .22 classic
Some other junk rifles


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