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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:22 pm 
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Location: South shore Montreal
Just recently two posts about the white safety warning draw numerous replies, one post to the point where it was locked by the forum Moderator. Unfortunately for me I was researching the subject and about to reply when I noticed it was locked… But considering the ongoing debate and the fact that no satisfying answer to the question was presented I feel compelled to reopen the debate…

I hope the forum Moderators will have mercy on my soul for doing this, but I believe my findings on the subject will provide pertinent information to all forum members. Moderators, please feel free to lock-out this tread as you see fit.

Here it goes…
I’m not a lawyer but I have 20+ years experience in Occupational Health and Safety. I know my way around rules and regulations and who writes them, apply them and interpret them… I work with and around Corporate lawyers, and constantly must double and triple check that the standards and procedures I write are complying with multiprovincial and US regulations… And in agreement to Edmonton<500’s comments on the now locked-out tread I will try to remain factual as much as possible.

Lawyers and Politicians writes the laws and regulations; Officers and Civil servants apply them following administrative guidelines, but the only true interpretation comes from the Judges and tribunals. Reading Case-law and Jurisprudence is the only way to really grasp the context how laws are interpreted…Not an easy task for us mere mortals but that’s the rule of law… BTW guess what makes those administrative guidelines changes from time to time? Bingo! Court decisions and Jurisprudences…

Now back to our main question…To determine if its legal to tamper with the Safety warning text the first question to ask is “for what reason or based on which rule, standard or regulation the warning appears on some airguns?” I was curious why some airguns sold in Canada didn’t have any Safety markings (KWC 1911 being a notorious example) while most of the others had them. If this was a Federal law (firearms act, import law, or any other…) the same would apply to all airguns imported in Canada…
Obviously, the firearm act does not mention anything about the Safety warning text. I haven’t check import laws or others but I have confidence in Canadian bureaucracy that if there was such a law requiring Safety Warnings on all airguns KWC wouldn’t be able to import unmarked guns here. So, the answer must lie somewhere else…

It took me a couple of hours, but I finally found the true reason behind the Safety Warning…Its a Standard from the American Society for Testing Materials titled; ASTM F589 - 17 Standard Consumer Safety Specification for Non-Powder Guns. The following is an excerpt form the ASTM web site : https://www.astm.org/Standards/F589.htm

Significance and Use
6.1 This consumer safety specification establishes performance requirements and test methods intended to provide a reasonable degree of safety in the normal use of non-powder guns and projectiles.
6.2 This consumer safety specification attempts to address the misuse of non-powder guns and specifies the minimum warnings and instructions that are to be provided in literature and on labels and packages.


1. Scope
1.1 This consumer safety specification covers non-powder guns, commonly referred to as BB guns, air guns, and pellet guns, which propel a projectile by means of energy released by compressed air, compressed gas, mechanical spring action, or a combination thereof.

You will notice that this Standard is aimed at informing the consumers, not Police Officers if the gun is real firearm or an airgun!

Now the interesting part is that this Standard (as most Standards are) is a voluntary standard adopted by the airgun industry. Being a voluntary standard, manufacturers may or may not decide to follow it (for ex. KWC). If they chose not to do so they expose their company to possible lawsuits for failing to clearly explain the risks associated with the use of their airguns. A Google search on F589 will show you several attempted law suits in the United States against Daisy and Crosman for “insufficient warning” following injuries and sometime deaths from airguns.

This is very well explained (this and many more aspects of airguns safety) in this interesting paper I also found during my researches: https://scholarship.law.unc.edu/cgi/vie ... ntext=nclr

For those of you interested in factual details, “industry self-regulation” is explained on page 1001 of the above link (on the same page, also look at footnote #174).

Now on a less factual note…considering the information I’ve gathered so far, my personal position on this would be (please don’t take my word for it!):
Technically since Safety warning text is not a requirement by law or regulation, tampering with it should not be unlawful but… If you completely erase it, could authorities still charged you for “making an airgun look more like a real firearm”? Not impossible I guess! But I haven’t investigated the details if there is legal basis for charges for this…

On the other and since lightly engraved black on black Safety warning are used on many airguns instead of white lettering I would take my chances toning down white lettering to a darker hue but still leave the text legible. (and evidently, I wouldn’t tamper with the serial number and caliber markings…)

I hope this shed some light on this delicate subject…

The above is not a legal advice, please do your own research and come to your own conclusions.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:36 pm 
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Thanks Yeager! I think this time we get a good answer for a myst and we can stop arguing and be friends again ~

Just want to say that's so good to have ppl who is a Pro in so many different fields and have the same hobby here!

Cheers airgunning and airgunners!

Sent from my LG cellphone

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 13, 2018 6:55 pm 
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Location: Edmonton
Well done, Yeager. 8)


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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 11:13 am 
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Location: Southern Ontario
Great research. I did call the rcmp about it and their were a bit starchy with me. Not illegal to colour over the warnings, but she made reference that the serial number and caliber needed to be easily visible. She, whom I forgot her name, stated colouring to make it look more real may lead one into a problem depending on the situation circumstances. Officer discretion I interpreted that as. All my guns have that ugly white lettering except the 1911 colt A1. It’s a personal choice to do so, but I’m going to leave my as is in case I sell them that way there in the original look as bought and let them decide to colour it over. Again great research. Your post is most appreciated. :)

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 9:03 pm 
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Firearm marking regulations require them to be stamped or engraved to a prescribed size and depth. As painted on markings do not comply with the firearms marking regulations, they can be removed. Some markings may be etched, and color filled, but again paint is not an acceptable marking method, so the paint can be removed.

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PostPosted: Thu Oct 18, 2018 10:19 pm 
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Yes firearms markings regulation have their own specs but that’s for firearms, i.e. for airguns over 500fps. Airguns under 500fps are “non-powder guns” and therefore captured by the ASTM F589 standard.

Ok on a second reading i think I got your idea... firearm marking regulation states it has to be etched or ingraved but some manufacturer will add white paint on top of the engraved lettering...your suggestion is that the white paint can be removed to make it less conspicuous.

_________________
«It's not enough that we do our best, sometimes we have to do what's required»
- Winston Churchill

Daisy 953
Umarex HPP
Walther PPK/S
Smith & Wesson M&P 40
Colt Python .357 (polymer)
Walther CP99
Smith & Wesson TRR8
KWC 226-S5


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PostPosted: Fri Oct 19, 2018 1:39 pm 
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I was just looking at my Hellboy. All of the markings, name, country of origin, warnings, S/N, and caliber are painted on.
I plan on painting the receiver at some point as I dont like the Hellboy logo.

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PostPosted: Sat Oct 20, 2018 9:40 pm 
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Aren't the markings on our airguns there to cover the makers butt and added by the lawyers team?
Like the "content may be hot" on coffee cups?
So as long as they're there to begging with, who cares what happens afterwards no?
My Hellboy only says to read the manual, that it's available for free from AirVenturi and the caliber.
The DPMS is similar with the addition that it's not a toy, be careful and blablabla.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 7:11 am 
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DocGadget wrote:
Aren't the markings on our airguns there to cover the makers butt and added by the lawyers team?
Like the "content may be hot" on coffee cups?
So as long as they're there to begging with, who cares what happens afterwards no?
My Hellboy only says to read the manual, that it's available for free from AirVenturi and the caliber.
The DPMS is similar with the addition that it's not a toy, be careful and blablabla.


Yep, mostly cover your a$$.

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PostPosted: Sun Oct 21, 2018 8:43 am 
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Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
If they wanted to make them duriable they stamp them. Give it a few months in a holster and alot of the markings be gone. Then what? Instant charge for using your airgun?


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