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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 9:03 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 1667
Location: GTA, ON
I know that dry firing a springer will damage the main spring of your gun.

Then, we better choose a "good fit" weight of pellet for your springer...not too light, not too heavy...

Besides I want to know how to determine the weight of the pellet is fit or not, my actual question is what will happen if we change the barrel to other caliber without touching the power plant?

Actually many springers have different calibers for you to choose based on the same power plant...

i.e. a HW97 @ .177 shoots at 950fps, @ .22 shoots at 750fps. 200fps difference.

For the pellet weight, if we use JSB Express RS .177 which is 7.33g, .22 is 13.43g, difference is 6.1g, almost 2 times of the .177 pellet.

And if we use the most light weight alloy .22 pellet, like RWS Hypermax, is 9.9g which is still much heavier than the 7.33g RS .177 pellet.

Can we say that the life of the same main spring in a .177 will be greatly shortened with the much lighter weight of pellet it shoots??

If not, can we say we can just go ahead to use the most light weight pellet on your springer if you like?? :rolleyes:

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Izzy 46M
HW30 Stainless Steel + Discovery 40mm Scope
HW35 Walnut + Hawke 40mm Scope
2240+14" barrel/Williams peep sight
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia
P1322 with walnut forearm


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:34 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
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Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
Why worry about a life of a spring? They can be replaced, and fairly cheap. Small price to pay for fun.


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:53 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 1667
Location: GTA, ON
Not really worry about the life of the spring... actually the spring in the springer at least looks very strong and durable... Just technically want to know more about this as I looks being hooked by the springers now...

Maybe should talk about this in another topic... If a spring was damaged due to the pellets used were too light... Together with a broken spring, are there anything else would be damaged at the same time? Like a spring guide, the valve etc?? Not a professional at all, so really curious about that ~

Sent from my LG cellphone

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Izzy 46M
HW30 Stainless Steel + Discovery 40mm Scope
HW35 Walnut + Hawke 40mm Scope
2240+14" barrel/Williams peep sight
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia
P1322 with walnut forearm


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 12:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 5881
Location: P.G. B.C.
Likely depends on the gun. Was shooting my HW97 HT in .177 Wed. evening, testing different pellets at 18 yards which is a comfortable
set up at our indoor range when more than a couple people are there.
I found the rifle liked the 7.9gr. Crossman FP target pellets which were the lightest I had, but it preferred the standard 8gr. Polymags, 8.4gr.
Cometa the best and matched the Cometa accuracy at 1/10" for 5 or 10 shot groups & 1/4" centre to centre with the 13.43gr. Monster Diabolos.
The Predators shot only 5shots into 3/8" & 10 into 1/2", but that is OK for a hunting pellet. They sure smack ground squirrels hard, out to 56yards, my furthest shots with those.
At 18 yards, those 13.43gr. pellets strike 2 1/2" lower than the 8.4's.
The 13.43gr. monsters would make a very good hunting pellet from a PCP.177 air rifle that ran them at about 900fps.

As I am primarily an accuracy-type guy, whether shooting targets or game, I lean towards the heavier pellets. The only exceptions to this, are the 26gr. Predator pellets in .25 cal.
Those seem light to me, compared to the more normal 30 to 34gr. pellets in that caliber, which my Condor prefers.

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Daryl


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 6:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2102
Location: Greater Napanee, ON, Canada
I shoot field target and most of my guns shoot about 12 ft/lb of energy.

My main guns are two TX200s, one a Mk2 and the other a Mk1 SR version.

The TX I am using almost exclusively now is the SR (Semi-recoiless) MK1. I tested the JSB RS (7.3) Express (7.87) and Exacts (8.44), in three different head sizes, to see which one the gun preferred. This gun chose the Express size 4.52 by showing the best groups at 50 yards and also the best stability in the wind. It shoots the AA 7.87 just as well, but they shoot about 10+ fps faster than the JSBs, something that is not too uncommon apparently. It shoots the AA at about 800 fps and the JSB at about 780-790 fps.

My Mk2 chose the Exact in size 4.53 using the same 50 yard test. The velocity is about 790 fps.

I know the FT guys that shoot sub 12 ft/lb springers all do the testing and they use the pellet that is the most accurate. Right now there is almost an even split between the 8.44 and 7.87, but there are also a good number using the 7.3s. Once is awhile a gun will prefer a 7.9 Crosman Premier or one of the H&N pellets, but this is relatively rare. I always try them, but have never had a gun choose them.

I avoid the heavy ones since the trajectory is very loopy. Having said that, there is a small group of WFTF shooters that are using the heavy JSBs (10.3) and claiming good results, especially in the wind. Out past 40 yards, their range finding would have to be spot on to get good accuracy, since the pellet would be dropping fast at that range.

In short, I use the pellet that hits the target, without much concern for the weight.

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Tim
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 17, 2018 7:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 5881
Location: P.G. B.C.
I didn't mention it above, but all 3 of my .22's, two PPC's (Brocock and Gauntlet) and the HW98 prefer the 19.09gr. Barracuda HP.

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Daryl


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 7:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:19 pm
Posts: 82
Location: Alvinston, Ontario
Used Heavy or Jumbos in my Magnum springers. Light pellets were lucky to group inside a beer can. Once they were slowed down a little, groupings came down to an inch or less, even with my crappy technique. Garbage can rest, railing rest, garage table, free hand, against a tree or side of the house.

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 4:25 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1233
Location: United States
With an HW97 I'd imagine you could dry fire it all day w/o damage, but I woudn't push my luck trying.
The guns are basically tuned, like how a car engine makes peak torque at a certain rpm based on all it's parts. The car will make good torque ouside that peak point, but it tapers off and at some point it takes a dump rather quickly. So your gun will make peak power with 7-8gr in 177 or 14.3 or less in 22, which is normal in your power level. It'll still shoot heavier fine but you will lose power, and at some point it'll fall on it's face. I'd draw the line at 10.5 and 18.1 due to velocity losses, but up to you and experimenting. It's common belief a heavy pellet will hurt the gun but that's not true and i have no idea where that myth came from. I firmly believe the opposite is true, the heavier the pellet the easier it is on the gun As a bonus, a heavier pell makes for a smoother shot cycle (less violent piston impact) so it's more accurate on avg, plus heavies are more accurate by default so itza wit win.
I'd find a pellet that shoots best and call it good. I like the JSB 8.44, 10.34 and sometimes 13.43 for higher power guns. In .22 I like 14.3 and ideally 18.1 if the gun can push it. H&N Baracuda Match are outstanding in 177, but likely too heavy for you in 22.
As for the barrel/power plant, they don't change anything other than the barrel. Reason is; the pellet is heavier in .22, but so it the bore diameter so it works out. Picture area of the bore like pneumatic gearing, whatever psi is pushing will be able to push whatever is in a larger tube easier. Basicaly psi x area = force. I think .22 has ~50% more area so ~50% more force than 177. As a result it can push 50% more weight. There are other factors, like friction and air volume, but that's the main one. This is why imo the 22 pells are ~50% heavier on avg. The only way to alter the gun to work better in either cal is make more power period, unless there is a deficiency. Like the HW77 has too short a barrel for 177 so imo they should add some length. On the other hand, the larger the bore the less barrel is needed since the guns displacement can only make so much usable air and that air is depleted faster as bore dia increases. So your HW will make more power in 22 than 177, and no doubt even more power in 25 but velocity would be horrible.


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