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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 1:01 pm 
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Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2018 11:21 am
Posts: 4
Hello,
I am new to this forum. This is my first post and question.
I plan to post my PAL airguns for sale here.
How do I ensure the buyer's PAL is legit?

Thank you.

David


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 3:48 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 8:43 am
Posts: 197
Curious about this one as well. Is the onus on the buyer or seller to establish proof? Or is it caveat emptor, with the buyer assuming the risk? Does the seller take on liability is he sells a rifle without confirming PAL...?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:16 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:15 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Fort Erie, ON
David, What did you have to do when you purchased your PAL rated firearms? Well, whatever they seller required of you at the time of your purchase is exactly what you will have to do as a seller.

I believe you need to get from purchaser:-
PAL number
Purchaser's birth date.
PAL expiry date.
Then confirm with CFO.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 4:18 pm 
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Joined: Sun Oct 21, 2012 10:15 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Fort Erie, ON
Guess if face-to-face transaction, purchase just need to show you his/her valid PAL.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 5:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 1581
Location: GTA, ON
Do we need to build a PAL rated firearm transfer record based on the completed sale to let related departments know this PAL gun had been passed from one owner to the other?! And how?

Sent from my LG cellphone

_________________
Izzy 46M
HW30 Stainless Steel + Discovery 40mm Scope
HW35 Walnut + Hawke 40mm Scope
2240+14" barrel/Williams peep sight
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
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HW40+Extender
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P1322 with walnut forearm


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:07 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 5791
Location: P.G. B.C.
No - yep yep - no record not unless are a business - and even then, not until the new bill is passed, if it does.

At this time, according to the law, for a sale on line or over the phone, you need to ask if the buyer is the holder of a valid P.A.L. If the "answer" is yes, you can

lawfully make the sale. You "MAY" use the internet to 'check' a PAL number, but you, as a private citizen are not REQUIRED to do this.

At gun shows here locally, if selling a firearm, I ask to SEE the valid PAL - after I ask If they have one. I am not sure I HAVE to actually see it according to the law, pretty sure not.

This should all be spelled out by the Canadian firearms centre but may be in language difficult to decipher.

This is how I understand the law as it pertains to TODAY - right or wrong?

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Daryl

Air Force Condor .25
Umarex Gauntlet .22
Air Force Talon .177
HW97 KT .177
HW98 .22
Brocock Concept .22
Artemis PP700S-A Reg. .22
Artemis PP800 Rebel Reg. .22


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 6:14 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 5791
Location: P.G. B.C.
I just went on the site - could not find what I wanted, of course, so will have to contact via phone, the Provincial CFO tomorrow.

I suggest you all do the same.

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Daryl

Air Force Condor .25
Umarex Gauntlet .22
Air Force Talon .177
HW97 KT .177
HW98 .22
Brocock Concept .22
Artemis PP700S-A Reg. .22
Artemis PP800 Rebel Reg. .22


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 19, 2018 7:20 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 2508
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
You need their name, DOB and PAL number. You call 1 800 731 4000 and follow the prompts. And confirm it that way.

Now it's your choice how you want to do your due diligence in confirming. Ive been dealing with firearms for 20 years. Pre and post registry. Normally I takes the person word if he not hesitant to give out his PAL number when asked. Dealing with pellet guns, or NR's. F2F I'll just look at it. But most of my dealings have been online.

Now I never kept records of who I sold my firearms too, Nor made bills of sales. Ive owned well over 100 + firearms. People do not like any sort of registry.

I normally give someone a scan of my PAL with some number removed, that I give him separate. So they cannot forge it.

But a member here gave me this. Stating that this site told him this is all he needs to give. Now I crossed out his name. But everything else is what he sent me. If I didn't have a PAL, I wouldn't even know what this was.

Image


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 8:06 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 2508
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
FYI to confirm their license from CFP.

Its 1 800 731 4000
Prompt 1 ( for english ), 4, 1


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 1:49 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 5791
Location: P.G. B.C.
Which isn't necessary - you can do that, not you must.

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Daryl

Air Force Condor .25
Umarex Gauntlet .22
Air Force Talon .177
HW97 KT .177
HW98 .22
Brocock Concept .22
Artemis PP700S-A Reg. .22
Artemis PP800 Rebel Reg. .22


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 2:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 2508
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
Daryl wrote:
Which isn't necessary - you can do that, not you must.


So you are willing to risk losing all your firearms? 10s of thousand dollars in legal fees. Because you took someone word w/o proof they have a license? A private citizen IS required to ensure the person he selling to HAS a valid firearm license.

These high-powered air guns are subject to the same licence and registration requirements as a conventional firearm.

Ignorance is no excuse.

Not saying you must call but you need to do your due diligence. I just thought it would be nice and save people asking. Whats the number? By posting the # and the prompt to confirm the buyer license. Which is the current prompt since I just called this morning. To complete and start a restricted transfer.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 5791
Location: P.G. B.C.
Quote the section from the firearms act, leadslinger.


These are from the firearms site.


"When transferring a non-restricted firearm, the transferor (a seller or giver) may contact the CFP and request confirmation of whether the transferee (a buyer or recipient), at the time of transfer, holds a license authorizing them to acquire and possess that kind of firearm."


Telephone Transfers:

"Transfers of non-restricted firearms can be conducted without contacting the CFP, as registration is no longer required for this class of firearm. The transferor may verify that the transferee has a valid PAL by calling the CFP toll-free number (1-800-731-4000) before making a sale."

Restricted and prohibited firearms are more onerous of course.

Like you said, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

_________________
Best Wishes
Daryl

Air Force Condor .25
Umarex Gauntlet .22
Air Force Talon .177
HW97 KT .177
HW98 .22
Brocock Concept .22
Artemis PP700S-A Reg. .22
Artemis PP800 Rebel Reg. .22


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 2508
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
Well RCMP site isn't the law. And what I found out is shocking.

THIS IS the actual LAW. In the firearm Act.

Quote:
Authorization to transfer non-restricted firearms

23 A person may transfer a non-restricted firearm if, at the time of the transfer,

(a) the transferee holds a licence authorizing the transferee to acquire and possess that kind of firearm; and

(b) the transferor has no reason to believe that the transferee is not authorized to acquire and possess that kind of firearm.


So all you need to do is ask, and if they agree. That your legal obligation. But your going to need proof that you asked.

No wonder gun crime is bad. All you need to do is take a person word. I still won't accept someone word.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 1581
Location: GTA, ON
leadslinger wrote:
Well RCMP site isn't the law. And what I found out is shocking.

THIS IS the actual LAW. In the firearm Act.

Quote:

(b) the transferor has no reason to believe that the transferee is not authorized to acquire and possess that kind of firearm.



This legal wording always make me confused...

Is this (b) means if someone told you they have the PAL, you MUST believe them and trust what they told you is fact?!

Sent from my LG cellphone

_________________
Izzy 46M
HW30 Stainless Steel + Discovery 40mm Scope
HW35 Walnut + Hawke 40mm Scope
2240+14" barrel/Williams peep sight
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia
P1322 with walnut forearm


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 20, 2018 3:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 2508
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
YepYep wrote:
leadslinger wrote:
Well RCMP site isn't the law. And what I found out is shocking.

THIS IS the actual LAW. In the firearm Act.

Quote:

(b) the transferor has no reason to believe that the transferee is not authorized to acquire and possess that kind of firearm.



This legal wording always make me confused...

Is this (b) means if someone told you they have the PAL, you MUST believe them and trust what they told you is fact?!

Sent from my LG cellphone


I guess so.


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