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PostPosted: Thu Nov 22, 2018 10:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 1581
Location: GTA, ON
I have a non PAL HW30 in .177, scoped ( Discovery 40mm AO scope at 5x power), shooting from about 9 yards away, standing with some support from the wall.

I aimed at 2 different sticker targets which about just 4 inches away to each other ( bullseye to bullseye, 3 inches size targets). And it's on a small desk about 2 feet high.

I shoot the left one without any problem, easily one hole at where I aimed.

But there's strange that when I shoot the right one, the POI is always about 1/4 inch lower than the POA, still on one hole accuracy.

And I only know when I shoot the right one, I need to point my muzzle a very little bit to the right to aim that target...

I have another pellet trap put on the gound. The target on it is about 2 1/2 feet lower but on the right side. I have no problem shooting that one....and I need to aim a little bit right but more to lower my muzzle than shooting the up left one to shoot the lower one...

What's wrong with it? My eyes problem, hands problem or whatever? It's really tricky to shoot the springer....

Sent from my LG cellphone

_________________
Izzy 46M
HW30 Stainless Steel + Discovery 40mm Scope
HW35 Walnut + Hawke 40mm Scope
2240+14" barrel/Williams peep sight
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia
P1322 with walnut forearm


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:16 am 
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Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:49 pm
Posts: 139
Location: S-E New Brunswick forest
Hi Yep

Well the HW30 is a good gun. I wonder if your support on the wall is the culprit.

Springers are a bit fussy on hold for their accuracy. Look up artillery hold it will probably help
http://www.airgunshooting.co.uk/news/ti ... -1-5351209

Happy paper punching

Guy

Envoyé de mon LG-H873 en utilisant Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:14 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:17 pm
Posts: 1726
Location: Kingston, ON
YepYep,
If you are shooting from the same position at each target it's possible you are rotating the rifle slightly about the scope axis. Your setup and hold are working for the left but the "cant" could be affecting the right.

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Duke ))))----//----------==


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:38 am 
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Location: GTA, ON
So, that means it had better to move your position but keep the same alignment from your eye to the sights to the target instead of keep the same position but point your muzzle to different direction for different targets?

And my shooting lower actually would shooting left or right or upper, it doesn't matters, but as you turn your gun to point to different direction, the scope axis changes and your zero changes?!

Like I saw ppl using pistols in movies, YouTube, etc, they will keep the gun hold straight no moving, but keep on moving their body to shoot different targets, same thing, right?

Sent from my LG cellphone

_________________
Izzy 46M
HW30 Stainless Steel + Discovery 40mm Scope
HW35 Walnut + Hawke 40mm Scope
2240+14" barrel/Williams peep sight
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia
P1322 with walnut forearm


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:42 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 1581
Location: GTA, ON
Hillbilly wrote:
Hi Yep

Well the HW30 is a good gun. I wonder if your support on the wall is the culprit.

Springers are a bit fussy on hold for their accuracy. Look up artillery hold it will probably help
http://www.airgunshooting.co.uk/news/ti ... -1-5351209

Happy paper punching

Guy

Envoyé de mon LG-H873 en utilisant Tapatalk
Yep ~ I know the special hold for the springers I tried many different way to hold my HW30. And the good I found about the non PAL HW30 is just so smooth and actually it's not hold sensitive. So I just using a cozy way for myself to hold the gun . And I think it's not related to how to hold it and looks Duke gives a good answer, never think about it! And I will try more tonight ~

Sent from my LG cellphone

_________________
Izzy 46M
HW30 Stainless Steel + Discovery 40mm Scope
HW35 Walnut + Hawke 40mm Scope
2240+14" barrel/Williams peep sight
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia
P1322 with walnut forearm


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 12:39 pm 
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Joined: Thu Apr 16, 2015 6:49 pm
Posts: 139
Location: S-E New Brunswick forest
Duke is probably right. I had not thought of a canted rifle.

Cheers

Envoyé de mon LG-H873 en utilisant Tapatalk


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 2:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 5787
Location: P.G. B.C.
Canting is possible - also not moving your feet to 'properly' align with the right target is also a possibility. Due to the grouping, your 'springer' hold is just fine.

Not moving your feet or moving your feet too far, can cause windage - as well as canting the rifle. Even high speed PCP's will cause differing points of aim with even

slightly different holds.

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Daryl

Air Force Condor .25
Umarex Gauntlet .22
Air Force Talon .177
HW97 KT .177
HW98 .22
Brocock Concept .22
Artemis PP700S-A Reg. .22
Artemis PP800 Rebel Reg. .22


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 9:24 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:06 pm
Posts: 788
Location: Meaford, Ont.
My two Airhawks always shoot dead on. (528 and 650 FPS) Not hold sensitive at all. Go to my third full power Airhawk and it can be a hand full. Somedays it is bang on but not consistently everyday. Once I get on a roll I can keep it going till my shoulder gets a little numb and accuracy leaves suddenly. Somedays no gun shoots good for me. :lol: :lol: :lol: Depends how I feel. :drinkers:


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PostPosted: Fri Nov 23, 2018 11:44 pm 
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Location: GTA, ON
Yep!! Totally agreed! From the first a few shots, I can tell it's a good day to shoot or not ~ [emoji38] and this looks more obviously on the HW30.... Uhhh... Maybe I should say 'springers', but I got only one hw30 so far... :drinkers:

Sent from my LG cellphone

_________________
Izzy 46M
HW30 Stainless Steel + Discovery 40mm Scope
HW35 Walnut + Hawke 40mm Scope
2240+14" barrel/Williams peep sight
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia
P1322 with walnut forearm


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 7:11 am 
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:06 pm
Posts: 788
Location: Meaford, Ont.
I hear you YepYep. Can get frustrating. I own only springers. All five used to dime size groups at worse at 30 feet. Get out the full power and go to tennis ball size groups. Makes me not even want to shoot it. Once and a while I can shoot dime size but not very often. So bad I took off the good scope (second best scope in my lineup) for a different gun and put on a $39 scope on the full power. But I did order a better scope for it last night. I am motivated to shoot it good but hate wasting paper and pellets. If I cant hit a 1/8th inch dot at 30 feet I consider it a miss. Perhaps it needs a Vortex kit or a trigger job? Or is it just me? Don't want to waste money if it is me. :wink:

But I can say for sure that I have never shot powder burners so well in my life as I shoot them now since I got into pellet guns in the house. I am a firm believer shooting pellet guns even at short distance helps with long range accuracy with powder burners.

CHEERS!


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PostPosted: Sat Nov 24, 2018 9:06 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
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Location: GTA, ON
I did some more experiment and found it all caused by me... however I can't find a good way to correct it....

I put new targets and did my new shooting on it.... And this time it proved my guns actually zeroed okay as the lower center target gets the best POI vs POA...

And on other targets I got the POI slightly drifted to the side...

I tested it with my Daisy 953 too, which with a different 40mm size Hawke scope on same 5x power... Interesting, on the upper right target ( where I noticed my problem at the very beginning), the POI was slightly on the up, not as my HW30 that's on the lower side.... Image

Sent from my LG cellphone

_________________
Izzy 46M
HW30 Stainless Steel + Discovery 40mm Scope
HW35 Walnut + Hawke 40mm Scope
2240+14" barrel/Williams peep sight
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia
P1322 with walnut forearm


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 9:29 pm 
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Joined: Sat Jan 25, 2014 9:16 pm
Posts: 1220
Location: United States
Cant needs pellet drop in order to show itself, and not much drop at 9yrds. For example a laser beam is straight so cant does nadda. If your pellet came out at 27fps you'd have one second of drop so cant could be a big prob, the more cant the bigger the prob. My guess is you barely have either. As a test; shoot it straight and cocked 45 to each side to see what happens. Or 90 degress, or even upside down which you'll see for sure.
So basically I think it's you, or mostly you, which I guess you figured out? All I can really say is practice using a hold that is very natural and comfortable so it's repeatable w/o thinking, and be wary of butt to shoulder contact which changes a lot sitting vs standing. Some springers are very sensitive to that but tuning helps problem guns a great deal, like fixing the main and breech seal. Be certain the stock is secure to the metal, any movement can cause probs. This stuff is imo why I don't really have hold issues. The 30 prolly doesn't need any work but you never know unless you open it up.
Lots of people have parallax issues they're unaware of, which can change a lot when you change positions. Standing vs bench, aiming upwards or down, leftor right, basically anything that changes your eye position behind the scope. So to be sure check your setting is actually parallax free, and I'd go a step further and center your eye behind the scope for each shot to see if poi changes. That's done by backing away until you see the darkness at the edges of your image, hold it there and center the image using the darkness as a guide. It also helps if the scope is internally centered, which is simply having the inner tube (the part that the W/E screws move) in the center which you can see by looking into the front lens. Then use shims under the rear mount to get it close to on target, then use the W/E only for fine tuning it the rest of the way. Virtually all break barrels need shim, some cannot even get on target w/o it. Many just shim a little a call it good, but I figure if you go thru the trouble to shim you might a well do it right.
Not much help I spoze but better than nothing.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 29, 2018 11:16 pm 
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Location: GTA, ON
Yeah, I actually pretty sure is my problem as I tried two different gun the 30 and the single pump Daisy 953, and find similar problem! However I can't find out the root cause ~

And I did try turning the gun to a certain angle to shoot, looks not really that can make some significant difference...

I now just received my new rifle today and I will make more experiment to see what happen ~

Actually how I shoot is standing besides the door frame, my left hand opened with thumb on the door fram and the open palm as a platform to support the forearm of the rifle. I believe it's still some kind 'artillery hold', as the gun was just put on the palm, and I don't even touch the side of the forearm of the stock....

While shooting different targets other than the middle one, the muzzle will be pointed to a slightly different direction. Maybe just 5 degrees or less than 10 degre... But the POI changed to a little lower or upper ( my two guns have two different result...)

I will replace targets and use the new arrived 35E tomorrow to see what will happen ~

Sent from my LG cellphone

_________________
Izzy 46M
HW30 Stainless Steel + Discovery 40mm Scope
HW35 Walnut + Hawke 40mm Scope
2240+14" barrel/Williams peep sight
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia
P1322 with walnut forearm


Top
 Profile  
 
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