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Would you vote in favour of this Bill?
Yes 68%  68%  [ 17 ]
No 32%  32%  [ 8 ]
Total votes : 25
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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 5:37 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:58 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Baden, ON
Considering how many teachers go out on stress leave how long would it be before a teacher shoots one of the little buggers driving them nuts. There have already been reports of negligence with teachers leaving their firearms laying around and being found by students. Firearms for protection should be left in the hands of trained professionals whose only focus is the safety of the school and its occupants.

I went to church with my cousins in Ohio last weekend when we visited. The church had an armed security person sitting a marked vehicle outside the church in each parking lot. I was told there was also a couple more inside the church. These are parishioners that take turns with most of them being ex military. I thought this was a sad state of affairs.


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 8:33 pm 
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Posts: 2802
Location: Canada
Absolutely. You can't stop these sorts of things from happening, but you CAN put measures in place to minimize the damage, or stop it in its tracks. Knowing that they'd be running into armed resistance might even stop or prevent some of these things from happening in the first place....

From my own perspective, I'd rather be in a position to do "something" other than hide and wait for the police to not only arrive, but figure out what's going on, further assess the situation, decide on whether a negotiator should be called........etc.

Al


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 9:46 pm 
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Joined: Mon Mar 27, 2017 7:06 pm
Posts: 832
Location: Meaford, Ont.
Not sure how I feel but what's a few more guns in Trumpville. :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: Fri May 03, 2019 10:20 pm 
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Joined: Fri Aug 24, 2007 9:21 pm
Posts: 2110
Location: Greater Napanee, ON, Canada
I was a teacher for 31 year and often thought of ways to react to all sorts of situations that could bring harm to my students. I ran scenarios in my mind often and was very aware of areas in the schools that would be the safest. I even acted through some of these scenarios in dreams. Most of the time, it worked out that you were going to have to put yourself in harms way and hope you still had the opportunity to take out the assailant.

If I would have had the opportunity to be trained and carry, I certainly would have volunteered. I have been a shooter since I was 10 and regular training would have been welcomed and if not enough was provided, I would have found a way to get more.

Just my view as someone who though often about this during my teaching career.

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Tim
CAFTA Governor


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 1:17 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 5917
Location: P.G. B.C.
"Considering how many teachers go out on stress leave how long would it be before a teacher shoots one of the little buggers driving them nuts. There have already been reports of negligence with teachers leaving their firearms laying around and being found by students."

That sounds like a politically motivated statement, not necessarily true, quite similar to:
"there will be blood running in the streets" after Kenesaw Georgia made it illegal for law
abiding citizens not to possess firearms for their own and for their neighbour's protection.
Because this didn't happen, it is no longer news in the politically driven news stations.
Generally, statements such as these, originate from people who know themselves to be of
that nature - thus think everyone is as irresponsible as they are.

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Best Wishes
Daryl


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 3:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Apr 24, 2019 7:58 pm
Posts: 31
Location: Baden, ON
Daryl wrote:
"Considering how many teachers go out on stress leave how long would it be before a teacher shoots one of the little buggers driving them nuts. There have already been reports of negligence with teachers leaving their firearms laying around and being found by students."

That sounds like a politically motivated statement, not necessarily true, quite similar to:
"there will be blood running in the streets" after Kenesaw Georgia made it illegal for law
abiding citizens not to possess firearms for their own and for their neighbour's protection.
Because this didn't happen, it is no longer news in the politically driven news stations.
Generally, statements such as these, originate from people who know themselves to be of
that nature - thus think everyone is as irresponsible as they are.


I'll have to disagree with you. Politics have nothing to do with it. Teachers primary focus should be teaching the kids with security being left to those who are properly trained and have that as their primary focus. Somebody being trained to hit a paper target isn't quite the same as somebody willing to shoot at another human being. There have already been a number of instances of negligent handling of firearms in schools. Do you think teachers need the added responsibility of trying to keep their firearm secured while their thoughts are elsewhere? Based on my conversations with friends in the teaching profession it seems the stresses teachers are exposed to are increasing every year.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/cops-teach ... -found-it/
https://www.motherjones.com/politics/20 ... n-schools/


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 6:56 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:03 pm
Posts: 544
rob g wrote:
Considering how many teachers go out on stress leave how long would it be before a teacher shoots one of the little buggers driving them nuts. There have already been reports of negligence with teachers leaving their firearms laying around and being found by students.


Come on, that's just fear mongering... or projection... :roll:

Using the same logic, male teacher shouldn't be near female students... you know, to prevent sexual assaults...

-=-=-

Don't know how many people around here ever had to walk around in public with a firearm on their side?
- it's not all that exciting.

To do it to protect myself or a loved one. Sure.
To do it to protect students, you better love them.

Most people, when faced with gunfire, their first reflex will be to run away from it... not toward it.


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 7:12 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 04, 2015 7:23 pm
Posts: 140
Location: Canadian Prairies
Obviously we are not in the States and a bit different situation, perhaps, but here is what one educational institution is using and the one shown at my workplace this past week:

Run, Hide, Fight.
https://www.ualberta.ca/protective-services/information-safety/active-shooter


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 8:38 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:53 am
Posts: 6436
Location: Montreal
They put fire extinguishers in the hallways and in some classrooms? Same thing.
Teachers are not firefighters and no one is expecting them to run in the fire with the fire extinguisher in hand but if he or she feels comfortable with it and think they can handle it, please do!
You might have to retreat, you might be wounded or killed but you could also be saving some lives.
If there's some training involved I don't see why this is a bad idea.

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Facebook is like ancient Egypt, people write on walls and worship cats

You can’t buy a single airgun for everything. Golfers use many different clubs, airgunners need more than one gun


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PostPosted: Sat May 04, 2019 9:05 pm 
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:52 am
Posts: 236
Location: Niagara Falls, Canada
Nothing in life is 100% risk free, even if you are in a mental institution, in a padded cell and a straight jacket, there is still a certain percentage of risk.

If you want to talk about accidents, accidents happen with almost anything. Though proper training can drastically reduces their frequency.

Of course I think armed teachers should have to be trained, I don't support ANYONE just randomly buying a gun and using it, without being taught proper basic safety, handling, and care and demonstrating their knowledge before using said gun. While I am genuinely pro-gun, this is where I differ from the "no regulations at all" crowd, I don't want a know-nothing using a gun without supervision from a knowledgeable person, it's just an extremely bad idea.


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 7:59 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 2693
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
ColdAir wrote:
Obviously we are not in the States and a bit different situation, perhaps, but here is what one educational institution is using and the one shown at my workplace this past week:

Run, Hide, Fight.
https://www.ualberta.ca/protective-services/information-safety/active-shooter


I went to college in 2013.... They did active shooter drills. Personally I thought they were a joke. But then again, I served 12 years in the Infantry with a tour in Afghanistan.. I wasn't gonna hide. When I went to Highschool, Columbine happened. Since school shootings were rare, they didn't even really do anything about what if back then.


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 8:01 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 2693
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
Twiggy wrote:
Nothing in life is 100% risk free, even if you are in a mental institution, in a padded cell and a straight jacket, there is still a certain percentage of risk.

If you want to talk about accidents, accidents happen with almost anything. Though proper training can drastically reduces their frequency.

Of course I think armed teachers should have to be trained, I don't support ANYONE just randomly buying a gun and using it, without being taught proper basic safety, handling, and care and demonstrating their knowledge before using said gun. While I am genuinely pro-gun, this is where I differ from the "no regulations at all" crowd, I don't want a know-nothing using a gun without supervision from a knowledgeable person, it's just an extremely bad idea.


Remember that got the 2nd Amendment, And read the last words. I talk to a lot of Americans and they say this alot.. So really have good luck try to say they cannot.

The right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 8:30 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:52 am
Posts: 236
Location: Niagara Falls, Canada
I don't see demonstrating competency as infringement, as long as you can learn basic firearm safety and handling, and pass a basic test, you can buy any gun you like, even full auto, etc, as far as I am concerned.

It's the same as doing whatever possible to keep people who are potentially dangerous (violent criminals, people with severe mental illnesses, etc) from legally acquiring firearms.

I know that even in the states, a lot of stores will refuse to sell to someone who they get a suspicious vibe from, and that's a good start.

As long as someone is competent, mentally stable, and not a criminal, they can buy any gun they want, as far as I am concerned.

I've sold three guns so far, 1 in person, 2 online. The one benefit of our licensing system, is that as long as someone's license is valid, there is no reason to believe they are suspicious.

So all I'd advocate for, is a basic permit, that would be rather easy to get, as all you'd need to do is be stable, not be a criminal, and demonstrate competency.


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 9:13 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 2693
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
Twiggy wrote:
I don't see demonstrating competency as infringement, as long as you can learn basic firearm safety and handling, and pass a basic test, you can buy any gun you like, even full auto, etc, as far as I am concerned.

It's the same as doing whatever possible to keep people who are potentially dangerous (violent criminals, people with severe mental illnesses, etc) from legally acquiring firearms.

I know that even in the states, a lot of stores will refuse to sell to someone who they get a suspicious vibe from, and that's a good start.

As long as someone is competent, mentally stable, and not a criminal, they can buy any gun they want, as far as I am concerned.

I've sold three guns so far, 1 in person, 2 online. The one benefit of our licensing system, is that as long as someone's license is valid, there is no reason to believe they are suspicious.


But law states if people can own/carry, they can own/carry. Nothing stopping them.

So to keep guns out of the hands. Like people that draw pictures of bleeding eyes, holy bibles with swastikas? Or very anti religious, to almost radical? Those type of mental illnesses? Those are Red flags to me. Yeah Canada doesn't do a good job at vetting.

Neighbor killed himself with a gun the family didn't even know he had. For years there were signs.

But out of the 100s of guns I sold. I never once took someone word. Then again alot of those were the days of LGR.


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PostPosted: Sun May 05, 2019 9:46 am 
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Joined: Sun Dec 16, 2018 1:52 am
Posts: 236
Location: Niagara Falls, Canada
Well mental health issues are not diagnosed by the average person who knows nothing about them.

Someone liking X music, creating X art, dressing like whatever, having X views, etc, has nothing to do with mental health. If it did, then Marilyn Manson would be mentally ill, and so would Alice Cooper because of the guillotine he used in his earlier shows, as well as W.A.S.P because of their late 90's antics, etc.

The way mental illness is talked about in society, unfortunately keeps people who may actually be struggling with something, from seeking help.

If someone hasn't been officially diagnosed with a severe mental health issue making them a potential danger to self or others, then in my mind as far as mental health is concerned, they are clear to buy whatever gun they want.


As far as your neighbor, if there were signs for years of (I assume) them being suicidal, and no one seriously talked to them about it, then yeah that was bad for sure, but then again, the lack of any apparent concern or attempt to talk with them about it, is to blame.

So in short, mental health issues are best left up to mental health professionals, and not the average joe or jane, because the average joe or jane, is not nearly as smart as they think they are, and there's also average joes or janes that believe/say/ and do pretty damn stupid things, like flat earthers, creationists, fundamentalists, alternative medicine users, general whack jobs, etc.

While everyone is entitled to their opinion, that doesn't mean everyone's opinion is equally valid, in fact most people's opinions, including yours and mine, on many things, are entirely worthless and should be ignored. For example, I'd take my doctor's opinion over the opinion of someone who practices alternative medicine and certainly over the opinion of a faith so called "healer".


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