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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 5:43 pm 
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Location: Canada.
Looking for someone with first hand knowledge to answer this question.

Sitting around the coffee table discussing the Lee Enfield Rifle No.4 and 5 (Jungle carbine)
The #5 is the #4? with metal removed in certain places to make the #5 not as heavy as the #4.
Question:

Can the bolt assembly from the #4 be placed in the #5 and the rifle be fired safely?
Can the bolt assembly from the #5 be placed in the #4 and the rifle be fired safely?
A google search has turned up nothing.

Answers??

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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 5:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 2598
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
Wolf wrote:
Looking for someone with first hand knowledge to answer this question.

Sitting around the coffee table discussing the Lee Enfield Rifle No.4 and 5 (Jungle carbine)
The #5 is the #4? with metal removed in certain places to make the #5 not as heavy as the #4.
Question:

Can the bolt assembly from the #4 be placed in the #5 and the rifle be fired safely?
Can the bolt assembly from the #5 be placed in the #4 and the rifle be fired safely?
A google search has turned up nothing.

Answers??


The No5, is just a shortened No4. The No5 has a 19" barrel, and the No4 a 25", plus it got a shorter forearm, and less wood. It has a little bit of metal taken off to make it lighter. Down side is something called wondering zero.

But yes a no4 bolt will fit a no5, vise versa.

But with Lee Enfields, the bolt heads are marked with different numbers 0 -4. So when you are changing bolts, best to do a headspace check. The higher the number bolt, the more likely the throat is getting eroded and greater the head spacing is getting worst. That how people fix LEs with bad headspacing, is getting a higher number bolt head.


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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 6:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 5854
Location: P.G. B.C.
Along with the headspace talk, mil-spec rifle makers and actual specifications were very generous, to allow dirty ammo, and ammo from any mfg'r to be used.
Most Enfield's have a bit sloppier headspace than CIP laws or SAAMI standards would allow for sporting guns. The ammo/brass was not meant to be reloaded
so if the case stretched badly above the web due to a sloppy (overly long body on the chamber), it was of no consequence.
As far as the throat changing the headspace, that is not a correct statement.

With a rimmed ctg. (ie: .303 Brit) the actual "headspace" is measured from the bolt face to the top or front surface of the rim. Many of them did have sloppy headspace, but
most of the chamber slop was from having not only headspace, but a very long body in the chamber itself, longer than the .303 ctg. normal body. Thus, a long body would
cause even more excessive case stretch - which happens mostly at the web, where the case thins from the head, about 3/8" above the rim.

Throat wear or length has nothing to do with increasing headspace of a rimmed, rimless or belted magnum chamber. Throat wear/erosion simply increases the distance the bullet
has to travel/jump before contacting the rifling. Some guns, like the WTBY's chambered for their own propitiatory ctgs. will have free-bores of up to 1/2" or more in length. This does
not change the headspace. It is simply an opening for high-powered advertising to claim increased speed in a given bore size. Ackley & Hutton proved the falsity of this claim a few times
over.

Back to the .303 Enfield, if you do have one that stretches brass badly and you can find higher number bolt heads, using one to make the actual headspace tighter, should improve accuracy
due to better ignition, as well as reducing the amount of head-stretch that an elongated chamber also causes.

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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 8:17 pm 
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Location: Canada.
My sincere thanks to both Leadslinger and Daryl
for the education and kindness for their replies.
Wolf.

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PostPosted: Sat May 18, 2019 9:01 pm 
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Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
Wolf wrote:
My sincere thanks to both Leadslinger and Daryl
for the education and kindness for their replies.
Wolf.


No problem. I just owned 2 No5's and a slue of No4s.


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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 11:30 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 5854
Location: P.G. B.C.
Those 2 models, along with Mark 3's used to be the most popular amongst Canadian hunters over many decades. They were cheap and many young lads started off with an Enfield.
Today, you'll see prices running from $100.00 to about $300.00 depending on the level & skill of "sporterization". Full military rifles bring higher prices if all part numbers match.
When I first moved to BC - almost every household, it seemed, had one of those model rifles - for moose, deer and bear hunting. I only have a few left. One #4 I've had for decades, has been re-chambered to use a .350 Rem Mag case, necked down for a .303 cal. bullet. After making this change I found Ken Waters had also done this and called it the .312 Express. I guess I could call mine the .316 express as that is the groove diameter of my 2-groove bl. which appeared to not have been fired prior to my acquisition. This rifle was a rifle sporterized by Remington & sold as surplus.
The new chamber gave me 1 1/2" for 3 shots centre to centre at 100 meters, using the rifle's battle sights, with 174gr. Hornady .312" RN @ 2,960fps.

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PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2019 7:49 pm 
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Location: P.G. B.C.
For those who work in foot pounds energy, that's 3,386fpe, from what used to be a .303, having about 2,415fpe, max.(174gr. @ 2,500fps)

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