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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:26 am 
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Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 9:01 pm
Posts: 14
I just watched a video on YouTube about airgun pellets and finding the most accurate ones. The author claimed that the future of air guns is slugs, and precharged pneumatic rifles.

Essentially his thought is that PCP rifles can push projectiles to a much higher velocity more easily with no recoil than a spring piston. And as we get to around the speed of sound, pellets with their skirt become unstable.

Personally I don't yet have any PCP rifles and in the past has been due to cost, but prices are dropping pretty dramatically on some of them.So I can see myself getting one in the near future.

So for now I'll just have to love shooting a spring piston a rifle and CO2. But the comment in the video did give me reason to stop and think.

What do you guys think, are pellets with a skirt going to become obsolete in the future?



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:40 am 
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I don't think so~

Before thinking about your question, we might think about what's the purpose of your air gun?

Ferrari is fast.... Do you need that fast? Even tho the Ferraris will be sold for 30k, I don't think on the streets there will be all Ferraris...

And I don't think the 30k 'Ferrari' will be as same quality as the 100k 'Ferrari'...

But technology is advancing, like 20 years ago, DOHC engines were rarely to be seen in non-sport cars, you see, Yaris is using DOHC engine now, and Fit is using VTEC...

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Last edited by YepYep on Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:58 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 9:57 am 
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Location: Toronto
Regulated PCPs are the future, but diabolo pellets are here to stay for typical airgun distances. I can see slugs excelling at over 100m shooting, but those are powder distances anyways. Also, lots of big bore slug shooting airguns are shot at subsonic velocities.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:05 am 
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Yeah... In some conditions, the high power PCPs would take some place from the powder burners, but there will be no chance for only PCPs for pellet guns.

And I like the recoil from a springer so much and recoiless would be just boring somehow...

I remember the UK Top Gears magazine test drived the brand new Mercedes AMG GT years ago, there were both pure electrical model and traditional gas engine model for the test-drive... According to the tester, it looks from performance, the electrical model won in every spot, but the driver just love driving the traditional model more.... It's the feeling, and it's the fun...

So, do you want your air gun just shooting the bullseye every time, or can give you more other funs in something else?

Recently I think about PCPs seriously too... I think I will get one in the near future too, but more for saving co2 money, and can have some other type of exercises in pumping the hand pump.... 8-)


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Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
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Last edited by YepYep on Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:06 am 
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Location: Kingston, ON
The "diabolo" pellet shape works best at or near subsonic velocities and poorly at supersonic velocities. So, as you will see from many posts, the optimum speed for accuracy of diabolo pellets is around 850 fps (slightly supersonic). After that for high power PCP bullets or slugs perform better - hence the Bob's Boat-tail and the like slugs.
For non-PAL airguns including almost all the pistols sold in Canada, the good old diabolo pellet is the best for accuracy. In addition the vast majority of airguns made before 2010 are shooting pellets in the diabolo is best range. So, I don't expect diabolo pellets will become obsolete.

BTW diabolo refers to the shape of the pellet with a head and tail and a distinct waist, Diablo is a Spanish devil. :ANAL: :P

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:43 am 
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I also think skirted pellets are not going anywhere any time soon.

Not every situation calls for 1000+ fos. Haha

I just thought it was a bold thing for this guy to say.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 10:32 pm 
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Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:02 pm
Posts: 43
Location: Hamilton Ontario
Diablo pellets or domed pellets will be around long after we are all pushing flowers. Get your self a pcp and play a little, their not that expensive boss.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:13 pm 
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Location: Coalmont BC
Don't fall into the trap of believing that slugs will allow airguns to shoot Supersonic with accuracy and efficiency.... ALL projectiles have a huge increase in drag in the Transonic range (Mach 0.8-1.2)…. In addition, the wind drift also increases in the same velocity range, by about 50%.... In fact, with a given slug, you would have to drive it about 2500 fps before the wind drift dropped again to the same as you would get at 900 fps....

PCPs are capable of driving lightweight slugs at over Mach 1, but in reality they decelerate so quickly that by the time they have gone even 50 yards downrange they are Subsonic again.... The amount of additional air required to get a slug Supersonic, only to have it fall back again so quickly, is simply not worth it.... Even when shooting slugs, the sweet spot for velocity remains around Mach 0.8 (900 fps), or maybe a bit more....

Once you consider the above, the main advantage to slugs over pellets is a drastic reduction in drag, which shows up as an increase in BC.... That has some effect on flattening the trajectory.... but it has causes a huge decrease in wind drift.... THAT is the best thing about slugs compared to pellets.... Since that is more important at longer ranges.... shooting at long range is when slugs pay the biggest dividends....

Good quality diabolo pellets will be around for a long time to come.... but slugs will gradually become more popular for those who want to stretch out the range to 100 yards and more....

Bob

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 03, 2019 11:31 pm 
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Price matters and slugs are significantly more expensive. They definitely offer nothing to the 10m crowd. Skirted pellets diablo or otherwise are going nowhere for the foreseeable future.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 04, 2019 1:43 pm 
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Location: Tecumseh, Ontario in South Western Ontario
Also air gun barrels ID vary significantly between manufactures and even the batches they produce. The skirt of a diablo pellet under HPA expands to fit different diameter barrels and slugs can't do that.
Another reason diablo pellets will always be popular is exactly because they have a low BC and so won't travel for miles and possible hurt someone.


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 3:21 pm 
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Location: Meaford, Ont.
Buy a new PcP or Co2 gun and they are fun for a couple weeks and I always go back to my springers. Nothing better than a deadly accurate springer when one gets there. .22 shells for a powder burner are cheap when buy in bulk and you don't need an air source to truck around with you. In Canada, I don't see airguns that you need the same licence for and same rules taking over anything. CHEERS!


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 10:07 pm 
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Location: 1/2 Way From Ottawa and Montreal,
And Guys don't forget the FT competition around the world have rules that only allow Diablo pellets.

they are here to stay but for hunting slugs will win out.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 05, 2019 11:08 pm 
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Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 7:46 pm
Posts: 497
Location: Ontario
wheeliehd wrote:
Buy a new PcP or Co2 gun and they are fun for a couple weeks and I always go back to my springers. Nothing better than a deadly accurate springer when one gets there. .22 shells for a powder burner are cheap when buy in bulk and you don't need an air source to truck around with you. In Canada, I don't see airguns that you need the same licence for and same rules taking over anything. CHEERS!


I'm thinking along the same lines... I get that in countries like the USA where you can have "shrouded" barrels which greatly reduce the report, airguns have an advantage over un-silenced rimfire in terms of discreteness. In Canada, at least for myself, I don't really see the point of high power PCP's in general. The only time I witnessed someone shooting a powerful PCP (an Air Force something) I remember it was quite loud; I don't know what other members' experiences are but I'd bet a long barreled .22lr like a CZ 452/455 ultra-lux will be quieter. If you do have any experience here I'd like to hear about it.

One of the huge advantages of air guns is being able to shoot indoors and, if you're lucky, on your property in a more discrete / safer manner. The diabolo pellet shines here especially at lower power levels or in a springer. In my mind, the slugged PCP (presumably set up to maximize power) will have none of the advantages traditionally offered by airguns and more disadvantages than simply going with a rimfire rifle.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 06, 2019 7:43 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:24 pm
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Location: Dowling ,ontario
I’ve been using and casting my own bullets in different Calibers for the last few years . I still shoot pellets , I admit not quite as much as the bullets I cast but I still do . Obsolete , I don’t think so . There are good reasons for both. When shooting longer distances bullets win hands down , but anything under say 70 yards good quality pellets win in the accuracy department every time .

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 11, 2019 10:55 am 
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Pellets with a skirt are here to stay for subsonic velocities.

I like the recoil from a springer, just more fun.


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