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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:40 am 
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Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:32 am
Posts: 982
Location: Montreal
I have just received and used this device to confirm that my scope reticle is properly aligned with the rifle mechanism itself. If it is not then the longer shots will be left or right the target.
It is now on sale, as of this notice, for 40$ US versus $60 US on Amazon.com. I have tried it on 3 of my rifles , My main shooter was badly aligned , the 2 others less, but still not right on . Nicely built unit. Recommended.

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" Only problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money"

HW 95 .22 Hawke 3-12x44 , Tuned by Motorhead
HW98 .177 Viper 4-16x50
BSA Ultra .22 MTC Mamba Lite 3-12-44, Regulated and tuned by The Rat Works, UK..


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:31 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:17 pm
Posts: 2300
Location: Kingston, ON
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9UzGd1dVfis
What's the purpose of the fancy barrel mounted adjustable level? It doesn't seem to me to be necessary, but obviously is the major component/cost of the "system".
To mount my scopes, I use a $5 line level on the reciever (like the first use of the reference level in the vid), and adjust the rifle angle so the rifle is level. Then I put the scope in the mount and put the line level on the turret and rotate the scope to be level - now both gun and scope are level. I carefully tighten the scope rings observing that the sope doesnt rotate. As long as I don't bump the rifle during the process everything will be true. :drinkers:

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 2:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 6840
Location: P.G. B.C.
The barrel mount is strictly to have a 'second or continual' reference for "level".
I have a pair of levels I use for scope mounting. It helps to have flat surfaces, ie: scope bases, etc for obtaining the initial level
in the vice.
The Wheeler system is simply their idea for an sales item to make money - and it will.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 4:50 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:32 am
Posts: 982
Location: Montreal
Yes your both right so far. I have used the line with a weight set up, it works! I have used the reverse scope marine method and it works. And nothing comes close to the ease of using this device , I did the three rifles in 30 minutes.. on 30" by 24" inch table top with my gun support on it.. To each his own.. be well.

_________________
" Only problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money"

HW 95 .22 Hawke 3-12x44 , Tuned by Motorhead
HW98 .177 Viper 4-16x50
BSA Ultra .22 MTC Mamba Lite 3-12-44, Regulated and tuned by The Rat Works, UK..


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:14 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:19 pm
Posts: 9130
Location: Coalmont BC
Eliminating "cant" problems is a 2-step process.... The MOST important thing is to make sure that the vertical crosshair in the scope BISECTS the barrel.... I watched that video, and while it guarantees that the vertical crosshair is PARALLEL to a vertical line through the barrel IF the top of the receiver is level, it does NOT guarantee that the vertical crosshair intersects the bore.... Check out this diagram....

Image

The Wheeler system insures that you have condition "A" (rifle is level, bore is vertical, crosshairs are level), but unless the scope rings are on the centerline of the rifle, the vertical crosshair will NOT intersect the bore (as shown in "A").... This is NOT the proper way to mount your scope, regardless of what you may have heard!.... If your rings are not on the centerline of the rifle (a common problem), you need to mount your scope as in drawing "B", and then when shooting you need to hold your rifle as in drawing "C".... :shock:

There are many variations of "scope cant" (reticle not bisecting boreline) and "rifle cant" (not having the scope directly above the bore).... They all cause different POI at near and far ranges, as per this second diagram....

Image

Fortunately there is a simple method for getting your scope reticle lined up with the bore.... Set up a mirror at half the closest focal distance of your scope from the muzzle (eg. if your scope will focus at 10 yards, set up a mirror at 5 yards).... Leave the scope rings loose enough that you can rotate the scope inside them.... Set the scope windage and elevation approximately in the middle of their adjustment range (counting clicks from end to end and finding the middle is plenty close enough).... Look through the scope and tilt the mirror until you can see the reflection of the rifle and scope.... Twist the scope in the rings until the vertical crosshair bisects BOTH the objective bell of the scope (big lense at the front) AND the center of the bore at the same time.... Snug up the scope rings a bit at a time, making sure when you are done that the vertical crosshair lines up with the center of the scope and the center of the bore, both at the same time.... This insures your SCOPE CANT is zero....

Sight in your rifle at the appropriate range.... Whenever you shoot, make sure that the vertical crosshair is vertical, and the horizontal one is level.... If your scope rings were not on the centerline of the receiver, you MUST hold the rifle on a bit of a slant to achieve this.... However, when the crosshairs are level, for the purposes of shooting, you have zero RIFLE CANT.... If you have difficulty figuring out if the crosshairs are level, you can purchase a scope level that mounts to the side of the scope, make sure it is set to that the bubble is in the middle when the vertical crosshair lines up with a plumb bob.... Some scopes have an internal level for this purpose....

I had a Hatsan AT44 where the scope rings were off center.... I leveled the gun and scope when installing, and it shot one side on close targets and the other side on far targets.... I used this simple mirror method to line the vertical crosshair up with the bore, and it cured the problem.... However, I did have to hold the gun on a bit of an angle when shooting to insure that the crosshairs remained level....

Bob

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Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal;
Too many! Springers, Pumpers, CO2, but I love my PCPs and developing them!
Proud Member of the 2000+fps Club!


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 2636
Location: GTA, ON
The mirror trick is super informative and must follow it to check and adjust all my mounted scopes!!

Sent from my S9 via Tapatalk

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:34 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:17 pm
Posts: 2300
Location: Kingston, ON
is there a youtube of the mirror method? I remember reading this technique but have never used it.

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Duke ))))----//----------==

HW97K .22
Cometa Fusion Premiere .22
Hatsan AT44-10W .22
Hatsan AT44-10MW .22
Atremis Hybrid PCP .22
Daisy 953 .177


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:20 pm 
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Joined: Sun Aug 28, 2016 1:00 pm
Posts: 100
Thanks for the heads up, I wanted to get one of these myself. Did it ship directly from Amazon or one of the other sellers?


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:28 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 4:09 pm
Posts: 1108
Location: Southern Ontario, Canada
Great device, I use one. Works really great with high end scopes but it will find the problems in cheap scopes. That problem being recticle to turret alignment, many mid to low end scopes I’ve used it on, make the turret level with the rifle. So if your scope recticle isn’t square to turret the recticle won’t be true to the rifle. No biggy with the standard 30/30 recticle but with mil dot types you’ll be moving your windage more and more as you shoot further distances.

When this problem occurs I just level the rifle in a clamp or vise, then I hang a plumb bob from the ceiling and match the recticle to the string. The tracking of the turrets will be slightly out but at least when you raise the recticle it’s true the rifle. This mainly a problem I have with powder burners shooting 200yds plus so it won’t be as extremely with airguns. But I like things dead nuts so I know the only variable is me.

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PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 9:12 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:32 am
Posts: 982
Location: Montreal
Hey rsterne what do you know !!! Only kidding friend, thanks for your input..

_________________
" Only problem with socialism is that you eventually run out of other peoples money"

HW 95 .22 Hawke 3-12x44 , Tuned by Motorhead
HW98 .177 Viper 4-16x50
BSA Ultra .22 MTC Mamba Lite 3-12-44, Regulated and tuned by The Rat Works, UK..


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:46 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:04 pm
Posts: 1110
This is what I use, perfect every time.
http://www.firearmsinsider.tv/gun-gear- ... instrument


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 2:56 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jul 27, 2012 6:32 am
Posts: 982
Location: Montreal
peterdulux wrote:
This is what I use, perfect every time.
http://www.firearmsinsider.tv/gun-gear- ... instrument

So this unit would take care of the problem that rsterne explained?


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PostPosted: Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:42 pm 
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Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:19 pm
Posts: 9130
Location: Coalmont BC
The V-blocks are supposed to hold the level at 90 deg. to a line from the C/L of the scope though the C/L of the barrel.... If that bubble level is level, and you align the vertical crosshair with a plumb bob line, then the vertical crosshair should line up with the muzzle.... Theoretically, that should guarantee zero SCOPE cant.... Then if you insure you have no rifle cant by holding the crosshairs level/vertical, you should be good to go....

The thing I like about that EXD instrument is that it should work even if the scope rings are not centered over the barrel.... 8)

Bob

_________________
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal;
Too many! Springers, Pumpers, CO2, but I love my PCPs and developing them!
Proud Member of the 2000+fps Club!


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 1:16 am 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:04 pm
Posts: 1110
Bob answered very well, yes, it will eliminate cant.


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