Canadian Airgun Forum

The #1 Community for Airguns in Canada!
It is currently Tue Oct 20, 2020 7:04 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours


The Canadian Airgun Forums are a place for people to discuss and learn about airguns and the airgunning sport in Canada. There are lots of discussions about airguns, airgun accessories, reviews, modification and repair information, airgun events, field target and free classifieds!

 

You need to register before you can post: click the register link to proceed. Before you register, please read the forum rules. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own pictures, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free! To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.








Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 4:52 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:45 pm
Posts: 807
Location: Toronto
I have been paper punching target shooting indoors for many years and have used domed pellets. Recently, I bought my first low recoil springer and went through a few domed pellets to find the best one for this rifle. I just tried a Meisterkugeln 7.0 grain wadcutter pellet.

The 5 shot groups at my 25 foot distance seem impressive because they produce larger holes but really just cover the same total space as 5 domed pellets. I don't use a target gauge to measure but clearly the wads visually show a better target result even though they don't touch each other as the domes do and produce one big hole for the 5 shots. So, is it just a matter of preference ?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:45 am
Posts: 39
ten-ring wrote:
I have been paper punching target shooting indoors for many years and have used domed pellets. Recently, I bought my first low recoil springer and went through a few domed pellets to find the best one for this rifle. I just tried a Meisterkugeln 7.0 grain wadcutter pellet.

The 5 shot groups at my 25 foot distance seem impressive because they produce larger holes but really just cover the same total space as 5 domed pellets. I don't use a target gauge to measure but clearly the wads visually show a better target result even though they don't touch each other as the domes do and produce one big hole for the 5 shots. So, is it just a matter of preference ?


I'd say yes, shooting at 25 ft shouldn't make much difference. Theoretically wadcutters should be slower due to aerodynamic drag. But I guess it matters on big distances. Also doomed pellets have better piercing capability. I did some experiments with same weight pellets from the same brand and 490 fps springers. Doomed pellets in this case penetrate 3 more cardboard sheets and go about 30fps faster than wadcutters. Not really scientific tests though and I was shooting from 15 feet.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 5:54 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 6987
Location: P.G. B.C.
In my FWB M150, flat headed RWS R10's made 1/10" to 2/10" 5-shot groups to 20 yards, easily, after scoping that rifle.
It was running 600fps with the 8.2gr. match pellets. The flat nose cuts a nice hole in true target paper due to the flat nose
but also due to the short-fiber paper used in targets. Even in normal long fiber paper, they cut better holes than-do rounded pellets.
As far as being more accurate, I do not know that, however that R10 was the most accurate in that match rifle.

_________________
Best Wishes
Daryl


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Thu Oct 01, 2020 7:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:04 am
Posts: 865
In issf 10m air rifle or pistol you want the biggest cleanest holes possible as you score from the closet to the center. There is no accuracy penalty for a flat nosed pellet at 10m indoor for pistol or rifle where they are equally as accurate. Maybe with electronic scoring like in the Olympics which measures pellet location based on triangulation of the sound hitting the plate you could use different shapes but the best pellets available are still flat nosed. Or more accurately the best pellet sorting service offered are for flat nosed pellets.

_________________
I have some airguns.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 6:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:15 am
Posts: 3865
Location: Edmonton
X2


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:10 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 2796
Location: GTA, ON
You just shooting at similar distance like me in my basement range.

I prefer the wadcutters as it cuts nice holes on paper target and brings biggest impact on plinking pop cans~

The yellow tin Meistetkugeln is a very good choice! I think I will stick to it when my R10 inventory runs out...

Almost all my pellet guns use the flat noses, from pistol to rifle , 177 to.22, co2 and springer...

However there's still some exceptions, like my new Pro Sport likes domed pellets which shoots better and easier to loading...

_________________
AA ProSport 177 walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e / 40+Extender / Scoped P3
HW45 with customized grips from UK
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine
Camo Chaser long barrel carbine
PP700SA long barrel carbine


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 7:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 3864
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
Domes tear, wadcutter punches.

I mainly just shoot wadcutter pellets. They do less damage to my steel targets, and ricochets less.

Good thing about domes, or round headed projectiles. Is when the scoring determines if you cut the line you get the next highest score.

_________________
I'm merely an Airgun plinker. I don't shoot 10m, FT or partake in Airgun competitions.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 8:43 am 
Offline

Joined: Fri Jun 08, 2007 8:45 pm
Posts: 807
Location: Toronto
ten-ring wrote:
I have been paper punching target shooting indoors for many years and have used domed pellets. Recently, I bought my first low recoil springer and went through a few domed pellets to find the best one for this rifle. I just tried a Meisterkugeln 7.0 grain wadcutter pellet.

The 5 shot groups at my 25 foot distance seem impressive because they produce larger holes but really just cover the same total space as 5 domed pellets. I don't use a target gauge to measure but clearly the wads visually show a better target result even though they don't touch each other as the domes do and produce one big hole for the 5 shots. So, is it just a matter of preference ?


Thanks for replies thus far and I understand that wadcutters are the accepted pellet for serious matches but when I shoot 5 domed at a distance (17 feet to 25 feet depending on the abilities of the airgun used) and I get 3 in 1 tight group and 2 about 1/8 inch away, I get annoyed. If I shoot 5 wads they cover the same overall area that the 5 domed covered but , because of their larger size, produce one large imperfect hole which covers up the fact that all pellets did not touch each other and makes it hard to know how well I did with each shot.So, to my mind, wadcutters conceal your abilities or of the gun you are using for any given target. Hope I'm making sense.

I only use the ISSF Kruger targets from Cibles and the domed pellets cut decent holes .


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 10:19 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:04 am
Posts: 865
ten-ring wrote:

Thanks for replies thus far and I understand that wadcutters are the accepted pellet for serious matches but when I shoot 5 domed at a distance (17 feet to 25 feet depending on the abilities of the airgun used) and I get 3 in 1 tight group and 2 about 1/8 inch away, I get annoyed. If I shoot 5 wads they cover the same overall area that the 5 domed covered but , because of their larger size, produce one large imperfect hole which covers up the fact that all pellets did not touch each other and makes it hard to know how well I did with each shot.So, to my mind, wadcutters conceal your abilities or of the gun you are using for any given target. Hope I'm making sense.

I only use the ISSF Kruger targets from Cibles and the domed pellets cut decent holes .


I wouldn't say flat nosed pellets are for serious matches but more so for easier/accurate scoring. For practice score really doesn't matter where consistency does. Losing track of shots to the one jagged hole on center is ideal. For scoring I wouldn't say anything is concealed. In rifle matches you only shoot 2 pellets per target and with pistol even though 10 shots are fired on target there usually is not any issues distinguishing the separate shots. As mentioned before serious competition used electronic and decimal scoring so the actual hole doesn't mean a whole lot.

Take a look at the thread. https://www.airgunforum.ca/forums/topic72269.html Included is a target with multiple centers to determine accuracy without risk of touching another pellet.

Big thumbs up for Cibles. Jocelyn and his son are simply excellent.

_________________
I have some airguns.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:22 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 6987
Location: P.G. B.C.
I suggest that NO serious 10 meter match shooter uses anything but the most accurate flat nosed match pellets in their 10 M rifles and match 10M pistols.
Flat nosed pellets are designed for match shooting & all that are used in competitions, around the world.
Basement shooters who are not serious 10 meter match shooters use whatever pellet they want.
The FN "wadcutters" are for scoring & when used on real targets, make perfect holes, which are needed for scoring.
That multi-bull target has nothing to do with 10M match rifle and pistol shooting that I know of.

_________________
Best Wishes
Daryl


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:28 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:04 am
Posts: 865
Daryl wrote:
That multi-bull target has nothing to do with 10M match rifle and pistol shooting that I know of.


Right, it's just a fun target. Not official anything. Sorry if I mislead anyone with that.

_________________
I have some airguns.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 11:47 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 6987
Location: P.G. B.C.
10M target shooters (ISSF), those who compete at Club, Provincial, National or International levels ALL shoot FN wadcutter
match pellets. Most usual for FT matches are round nosed pellets as FN pellets are not known for long-range accuracy,
that being accuracy beyond 10 meters, but at that range, can be the most accurate & most easily scored which is what
this thread is called.
Their use is likely a required rule in 10M matches due to the scoring ease. What you shoot in your basement, is up to you.
Also, serious match shooters, at least in a registered matches, usually use pellets purchased in the flat foam holding block,
that segregates individual pellets to prevent damage from bumping into each other as happens in a tin. It also helps them
keep track of the number of shots fired. Many will have small trays to hold whatever # of pellets they need for that match
whether it's 5, 10 or more.
I just looked at the rules and they are very convoluted.

"Equipment"
"For the 10 meter air rifle and air pistol disciplines, match diabolo pellets are used. These pellets have wadcutter heads, meaning
the front is (nearly) flat, that leave clean round holes in paper targets for easy scoring. Match pellets are offered in tins and more
elaborate packagings that avoid deformation and other damage that could impair their uniformity."

Rules:
"Until 2013, the maximum achievable aggregate score (qualification + final) was 709 for men (600 + 109.0) and 509 for women (400 + 109.0). The score for the qualification used integers (10 as highest score per shot) and the final stage included decimals (10.9 as highest score per shot). No top competitor achieved an official perfect aggregate score under these rules.

Under rules introduced in 2013, the qualification scores that used to be combined with the finals scores for competition results were deleted, and the best eight competitors started all over again. In the 20 shots final, the highest achievable final score was 218.0 points. No top competitor achieved an official perfect final score under these rules.

Rules introduced in 2018 ended the competition format differences between male and female athletes. Also, the final was changed to 24 shots (5 shots + 5 shots + 14 shots elimination phase). In the final, the highest achievable final score is 261.6 points. Up to 2020, no top competitor has achieved an official perfect final score under these rules. The current world record is 252.8 for men and 252.9 for women. "

_________________
Best Wishes
Daryl


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:27 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 3864
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
jckstrthmghty wrote:
Daryl wrote:
That multi-bull target has nothing to do with 10M match rifle and pistol shooting that I know of.


Right, it's just a fun target. Not official anything. Sorry if I mislead anyone with that.


It is a fun target.. Start doing soo well, and then you start getting worse and worse as the shots go by.

Some of the comments here is why I don't compete with airguns. Alot of you need to use this or that. More than just having fun.

I mean when I shot airguns in cadets. We used crappy old Copperhead wadcutters, Such quality match ammo.. About my extent of airgun competition, then I found out I can get paid to shoot guns.

I need to get better targets. I ordered 100 from amazon, but the pellets tear, leaving a flap vs leaving a nice hole in them. So once you get 2 shots on target, you can kiss measuring the group since it twice the size than it should be.

_________________
I'm merely an Airgun plinker. I don't shoot 10m, FT or partake in Airgun competitions.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 1:38 pm 
Offline

Joined: Fri Feb 29, 2008 9:07 pm
Posts: 67
Location: Alberta
put a layer of cardboard behind the target and see if that helps

leadslinger wrote:
jckstrthmghty wrote:
Daryl wrote:
That multi-bull target has nothing to do with 10M match rifle and pistol shooting that I know of.


Right, it's just a fun target. Not official anything. Sorry if I mislead anyone with that.


It is a fun target.. Start doing soo well, and then you start getting worse and worse as the shots go by.

Some of the comments here is why I don't compete with airguns. Alot of you need to use this or that. More than just having fun.

I mean when I shot airguns in cadets. We used crappy old Copperhead wadcutters, Such quality match ammo.. About my extent of airgun competition, then I found out I can get paid to shoot guns.

I need to get better targets. I ordered 100 from amazon, but the pellets tear, leaving a flap vs leaving a nice hole in them. So once you get 2 shots on target, you can kiss measuring the group since it twice the size than it should be.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Oct 02, 2020 2:06 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 3864
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
Jefferson wrote:
put a layer of cardboard behind the target and see if that helps


Thanks ill try.. I had hopes for these targets.. Since they're pretty thick.

_________________
I'm merely an Airgun plinker. I don't shoot 10m, FT or partake in Airgun competitions.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 18 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 3 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

phpBB SEO