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 Post subject: Canada post not shipping
PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:22 am 
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Posts: 1124
Went to mail a pellet rifle today via Canada Post and was asked if it was a gun. Asked why, she said box looks like a gun and she said they no longer ship guns due to covid and other restrictions. And, if I wanted to ship I'd need to be a business.

Anyone have input here?

This is what I found on the Canada Post site:

Non-mailable Matter
5.2
Firearms (including imitation and replica firearms)
International destinations:
Under no circumstances can Firearms be mailed as defined by the Firearms Act:
Section 16 - non-contract
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regu ... lText.html
Section 15 - contract
http://laws-lois.justice.gc.ca/eng/regu ... lText.html
Canada:
Please contact the Canadian Firearms Program at https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/firearms or by calling 1-800-731-4000 to determine whether it is permissible to ship your firearms.
When it is determined permissible to ship firearms, they must be shipped as follows:
Customer Type
Service To Be Used
Consumer
Regular Parcel with Signature option.
Due to changes to our delivery processes for COVID-19, all firearms must be shipped by Regular or Expedited Parcel and include the Proof of Age option. Consumers have to open a Solutions for Small Business account and create labels for shipping firearms using the online shipping tool, Snap Ship.
Contract customer
Expedited Parcel with the Proof of Age (18 or 19) option using EST. Visit Section Mail addressed to children of Policies for an age of majority by province or territory listing.
Customers who wish to ship firearms must:
unload the firearms - there cannot be any ammunition in the firearm or in the package (bullets, cartridges and other ammunition are dangerous goods)
attach a secure locking device to the firearms
lock the firearms in a sturdy, non-transparent container, and
remove the bolt or bolt carrier from any automatic firearms (if removable).
Firearms cannot be shipped via air and cannot have any markings on the outside of the packaging. The customer is solely responsible for meeting all Canadian Firearms Centre regulations.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 6:51 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:24 pm
Posts: 772
Location: Dowling ,ontario
Wow,

Blaming Covid -19 to turn this country to Communism. Just when I thought we would be getting back to “NORMAL”

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:18 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 18, 2014 7:24 pm
Posts: 772
Location: Dowling ,ontario
Here’s a quote or two from the act. And it is clearly stated about INTERNATIONAL shipping. I had my blood boiling at first until I caught the international part. WE CAN SHIP INSIDE OF CANADA.

The first is for individuals / non business

Shipping by Post
16 An individual may ship a firearm by posting it only if

(a) the firearm is a non-restricted firearm, restricted firearm or prohibited handgun;

(b) the destination is within Canada; and

(c) the firearm is posted using the most secure means of transmission by post that is offered by the Canada Post Corporation that includes the requirement to obtain a signature on delivery.

SOR/2004-277, s. 4

This is for businesses
Shipping by Post
15 A business may ship a firearm by posting it only if

(a) the firearm is a non-restricted firearm, restricted firearm or prohibited handgun;

(b) the destination is within Canada; and

(c) the firearm is posted using the most secure means of transmission by post that is offered by the Canada Post Corporation that includes the requirement to obtain a signature on delivery.

SOR/2004-278, s. 5


So what this is telling me is that it’s Canada posts POLICY not a law. I’m sure this is paid by taxpayers.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 7:49 am 
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Posts: 3997
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
Firearms now require you to open a solutions for small business account, and print the labels on line. But if you don't have a printer, you still need to go into the store and have them print it. So I don't think it has anything to do with covid. Anyone can open up an account. It's just more hoops to jump thru. I vaguely remember RCMP sending something to Canada Post. I bet to slow down the private sales of firearms, and just blame it on Covid to hide it.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:05 am 
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Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:17 pm
Posts: 2421
Location: Kingston, ON
After COVID, CP did make a policy about shipping firearms. Seem the policy is not followed by all postal outlets because I have shipped rifles since then without any issues at all. As recent as a month ago I shipped one and the postal clerk asked if it was a gun, because it looked like it could be a gun; and he added without prompting that it was no problem he was just curious. Then he asked to make sure the gun was not loaded and there was no ammunition in the box, and off it went. I have shipped two other rifles recently, no questions asked. All were in short boxes under a metre in length and wrapped in plain cover - no way to tell what's inside unless guessing. Now, the postal clerk that asked is at my local PO so he likely knows I'm a shooter and likely just made a guess that I was sending a gun.

Here is an old thread:
topic85793.html?hilit=%20canada

There may be other treads here about it - I recall that the COVID policy was that only businesses would be able to use CP for shipping firearms.

If you are shipping non-PAL gun, make sure you disguise it and don't disclose unless asked. Strictly, it isn't a firearm so there shouldn't be an issue.

HIH. :drinkers:

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HW97K .22
Hatsan AT44-10W .22
Cometa Fusion Premiere Star .22 /.177


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:13 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 3997
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
Dukemeister wrote:
There may be other treads here about it - I recall that the COVID policy was that only businesses would be able to use CP for shipping firearms.

If you are shipping non-PAL gun, make sure you disguise it and don't disclose unless asked. Strictly, it isn't a firearm so there shouldn't be an issue.

HIH. :drinkers:


Best bet for NON pal is break them down to be under 1M.. Because I posted that Canada Post increased the oversize fee to 20$ from 12$. So it will cost you extra 8$ to ship a oversized package. You don't need to be, or have a business, to sign up for a solution for small business account. But it takes time to receive it. Which like I said, it seems like a method to control the private sale of firearms. By making people jump thru hoops. Because if it was truly about covid. That they would make everybody do so, to ship packages, not a small percentage of "firearms" compared to regular packages.

Because that letter I posted, in that other thread. With the requirement for the small business account. Was weeks after May 1st OIC Ban..

I like the discount. And in Oct, you are able to ship 4 packages for free.. Once a week.

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I'm merely an Airgun plinker. I don't shoot 10m, FT or partake in Airgun competitions.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:21 am 
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:54 pm
Posts: 2442
Location: Northeastern Ontario
Before leaping to unfounded alarmist conclusions about how this is somehow a bizarre plot to turn Canada to communism or whether the RCMP conceived of this as a dastardly scheme to inhibit lawful mailing of legal products or to slow down legal transfers of property, please consider the circumstances.

Like all other shippers, during the pandemic Canada Post is swamped with unprecedented shipping volumes because more and more people are ordering items online that require shipping. There are more large and bulky items being shipped and this causes increasing delays for all shipping. (Firearms are not among the unusual large and bulky items.)

When shipping firearms by Canada Post (and presumably by any other shipper) the shipper must require proof of age and a signature. Canada Post usually does not require or allow it's postal carriers to request this information because of the need to limit face-to-face contact with customers at the door. Packages with such requirements are usually picked up by receiving customers from a post office depot, where masks are required and identification can be confirmed. Packages not requiring proof of age or a signature may be left at the door without customer contact.

Requiring customers to create shipping labels through the Canada Post helps bring about more order to the shipping of items such as firearms, which must be delivered with the proper requirements. It doesn't solve all problems. Not all postal depots will follow the new (and perhaps temporary) policy because of human error or oversight.

Shipping firearms by Canada Post is still legal and the new requirement is a relatively small added hurdle. Businesses shipping firearms haven't missed a beat and nor should consumers. It's not difficult to get a CP business account.

As long as the package is legal to ship by Canada Post, the advice to not volunteer what is in a package is sound. Shippers should not ship firearms in boxes identifying what's inside. Use common sense, follow the rules, and shipping firearms is not a problem with Canada Post. The alternative, which many used during the last postal workers strike, is to ship by couriers such as Purolator or Canpar.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 9:24 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:52 pm
Posts: 7375
Location: Vancouver Island BC
Shipped a airgun a week ago the girls at post office know i ship guns or radios they never said a thing .......


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 10:28 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 3997
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
Penage Guy wrote:
Before leaping to unfounded alarmist conclusions about how this is somehow a bizarre plot to turn Canada to communism or whether the RCMP conceived of this as a dastardly scheme to inhibit lawful mailing of legal products or to slow down legal transfers of property, please consider the circumstances.

Like all other shippers, during the pandemic Canada Post is swamped with unprecedented shipping volumes because more and more people are ordering items online that require shipping. There are more large and bulky items being shipped and this causes increasing delays for all shipping. (Firearms are not among the unusual large and bulky items.)

When shipping firearms by Canada Post (and presumably by any other shipper) the shipper must require proof of age and a signature. Canada Post usually does not require or allow it's postal carriers to request this information because of the need to limit face-to-face contact with customers at the door. Packages with such requirements are usually picked up by receiving customers from a post office depot, where masks are required and identification can be confirmed. Packages not requiring proof of age or a signature may be left at the door without customer contact.

Requiring customers to create shipping labels through the Canada Post helps bring about more order to the shipping of items such as firearms, which must be delivered with the proper requirements. It doesn't solve all problems. Not all postal depots will follow the new (and perhaps temporary) policy because of human error or oversight.

Shipping firearms by Canada Post is still legal and the new requirement is a relatively small added hurdle. Businesses shipping firearms haven't missed a beat and nor should consumers. It's not difficult to get a CP business account.

As long as the package is legal to ship by Canada Post, the advice to not volunteer what is in a package is sound. Shippers should not ship firearms in boxes identifying what's inside. Use common sense, follow the rules, and shipping firearms is not a problem with Canada Post. The alternative, which many used during the last postal workers strike, is to ship by couriers such as Purolator or Canpar.


Well I can jump to conclusion because it happened shortly after the OIC ban, and it something the RCMP love to do. They make their own laws, that are not laws. RCMP was caught trying to tell airgun business that it either or, and not "and" with the speed/energy requirement.

Anyways..

You always had the options to ship with the current requirement to ship firearms, without an account.. Because why make it that it's required to sign up for a solution of small business account to ship it regular mail with signature and proof of age? Also print labels. Now the person has to buy a printer, scale etc. If it is not some forum of tracking what people are selling. It's a huge inconvenience for people that are not shipping much, or not online. I know alot of people at my club that doesn't have internet.

Also why would they say.

Quote:
Please contact the Canadian Firearms Program at https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/firearms or by calling 1-800-731-4000 to determine whether it is permissible to ship your firearms.


Purolator sucks, 90% of my packages shipped by them arrive damaged.

BTW packages that require signatures ARE left at the door. Canada post said that they will do so if safe to do so... One of the reason why CP switched to proof of age required. Is that CP was leaving firearms on people door steps and they were being stolen. Forcing people to goto the post office and sign for it.

But again, you always had that option. And I don't think requiring signing up for an account is required.

_________________
I'm merely an Airgun plinker. I don't shoot 10m, FT or partake in Airgun competitions.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:08 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:04 pm
Posts: 1124
leadslinger wrote:
Dukemeister wrote:
There may be other treads here about it - I recall that the COVID policy was that only businesses would be able to use CP for shipping firearms.

If you are shipping non-PAL gun, make sure you disguise it and don't disclose unless asked. Strictly, it isn't a firearm so there shouldn't be an issue.

HIH. :drinkers:


Best bet for NON pal is break them down to be under 1M.. Because I posted that Canada Post increased the oversize fee to 20$ from 12$. So it will cost you extra 8$ to ship a oversized package. You don't need to be, or have a business, to sign up for a solution for small business account. But it takes time to receive it. Which like I said, it seems like a method to control the private sale of firearms. By making people jump thru hoops. Because if it was truly about covid. That they would make everybody do so, to ship packages, not a small percentage of "firearms" compared to regular packages.

Because that letter I posted, in that other thread. With the requirement for the small business account. Was weeks after May 1st OIC Ban..

I like the discount. And in Oct, you are able to ship 4 packages for free.. Once a week.


Thats not correct, the oversized rate is still $12.00, I just opened a small business account and the oversized fee is $12.


Order total $58.66
Shipment summary
1 Expedited Parcel
Shipping service price $24.26
Additional options $16.50
Oversized item surcharge $12.00
Small business savings - $1.86
Fuel surcharge $1.01


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 12:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 3997
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
peterdulux wrote:
leadslinger wrote:
Dukemeister wrote:
There may be other treads here about it - I recall that the COVID policy was that only businesses would be able to use CP for shipping firearms.

If you are shipping non-PAL gun, make sure you disguise it and don't disclose unless asked. Strictly, it isn't a firearm so there shouldn't be an issue.

HIH. :drinkers:


Best bet for NON pal is break them down to be under 1M.. Because I posted that Canada Post increased the oversize fee to 20$ from 12$. So it will cost you extra 8$ to ship a oversized package. You don't need to be, or have a business, to sign up for a solution for small business account. But it takes time to receive it. Which like I said, it seems like a method to control the private sale of firearms. By making people jump thru hoops. Because if it was truly about covid. That they would make everybody do so, to ship packages, not a small percentage of "firearms" compared to regular packages.

Because that letter I posted, in that other thread. With the requirement for the small business account. Was weeks after May 1st OIC Ban..

I like the discount. And in Oct, you are able to ship 4 packages for free.. Once a week.


Thats not correct, the oversized rate is still $12.00, I just opened a small business account and the oversized fee is $12.


Order total $58.66
Shipment summary
1 Expedited Parcel
Shipping service price $24.26
Additional options $16.50
Oversized item surcharge $12.00
Small business savings - $1.86
Fuel surcharge $1.01



It is going up tomorrow till Jan 10 2021.. According to the email I got from Canada Post Nov 2nd.

topic87108.html

Quote:
Important information and upcoming changes

Hello, XXXXXXXX


In this email, we share important changes, updates and tips so you can plan ahead and run your business smoothly during peak season
Modifications to surcharges for bulky items during peak season

Canada Post is adjusting three existing surcharges for the 2020 holiday season to address additional handling requirements for larger, bulkier items. These changes will be in effect from November 9, 2020 to January 10, 2021 inclusive.


Oversize and Unpackaged Items and Out-of-spec Items:


Surcharges for Oversize and Unpackaged items will increase to $20 from $12. Note that if an item is both Oversize and Unpackaged, the surcharge will only apply once.


The existing surcharge for items that exceed Canada Post’s size or weight specification (out-of-spec) will be adjusted to $300 from $125. This surcharge only applies to items with an actual weight greater than 30 kg, and/or one side greater than 2 m, and/or length + girth greater than 3 m.

_________________
I'm merely an Airgun plinker. I don't shoot 10m, FT or partake in Airgun competitions.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 1:00 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 7073
Location: P.G. B.C.
IN August, my new HW97 in .22, was left outside at my car-port basement door by the delivery person.
I called my daughter who was checking the house to check for it as my wife and I were at the lake. It was
my daughter's normal routine to enter the front door, not the side door, which is why I called. Lucky. While
the parcel could not be seen from the street, it most certainly could be by the street people who go through
my (and everyone else's in the neighbourhood) car port every night, to check car and truck doors, looking
for loose change or whatever. I was lucky I called her and she checked immediately. The delivery was made
THAT day.

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Daryl


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 4:52 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2013 6:54 pm
Posts: 2442
Location: Northeastern Ontario
leadslinger wrote:
Well I can jump to conclusion because it happened shortly after the OIC ban, and it something the RCMP love to do. They make their own laws, that are not laws. RCMP was caught trying to tell airgun business that it either or, and not "and" with the speed/energy requirement.

Anyways..

You always had the options to ship with the current requirement to ship firearms, without an account.. Because why make it that it's required to sign up for a solution of small business account to ship it regular mail with signature and proof of age? Also print labels. Now the person has to buy a printer, scale etc. If it is not some forum of tracking what people are selling. It's a huge inconvenience for people that are not shipping much, or not online. I know alot of people at my club that doesn't have internet.

Also why would they say.

Quote:
Please contact the Canadian Firearms Program at https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/firearms or by calling 1-800-731-4000 to determine whether it is permissible to ship your firearms.


Purolator sucks, 90% of my packages shipped by them arrive damaged.

BTW packages that require signatures ARE left at the door. Canada post said that they will do so if safe to do so... One of the reason why CP switched to proof of age required. Is that CP was leaving firearms on people door steps and they were being stolen. Forcing people to goto the post office and sign for it.

But again, you always had that option. And I don't think requiring signing up for an account is required.


To be sure, everyone is free to jump to conclusions, even if they are based on unproven conspiracy theories about the RCMP. None of the recent changes are part of a plot against gun owners.

If you don't want to ship by Canada Post, no one will force you to do so. There are other options. But if you do, you only need to open an account and have something to measure with. If you have a ruler and a bathroom scale you're all set. You don't need a printer as labels can be printed at the post office depot. Just like using this forum, you do need an internet connection and a device with which to use it. If you don't have that, find someone who does or get one yourself. (The internet fad will probably be here for another decade.)
If that's too much, someone who wishes to ship a firearm by Canada Post has the option to find someone with a PAL to ship it for him.

As for the question why there would be advice to contact the Canadian Firearms Program for information on whether you can ship your firearms, it might be worth considering that not all Canadians may be familiar with firearms shipping.

If someone didn't like Purolator damaging 90% of his packages, he should use another shipper. No one should continue to use a shipper that frequently damages packages. Try another shipper. Purolator's performance shouldn't disqualify all others.

Packages requiring signatures are being left at the door. During the pandemic postal carriers are not required to take signatures at the doorstep. These include all kinds of items. But packages containing firearms also require proof of age. This means that these packages must be picked up by an adult customer with identification at the local post office depot. This is to ensure minors can' receive firearms. It also helps prevent theft.

And it's worth taking a moment to consider how easy it still is to ship a firearm in Canada. It's now necessary to sign up for Canada Post's business solutions to print a shipping label. Once there's a shipping label, the firearm can be taken to the post office and shipped to the customer, just as in the past. In the US, a mailed firearm must be shipped to a Federal Firearms Licensed (FFL) dealer before a customer can go there and pick it up.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 08, 2020 11:52 pm 
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Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:04 pm
Posts: 1124
Just an update.

I did sign up for the Small Business Solutions account. It was very easy.

I printed the square scanner emblem and went to the post office again when it opened and asked them to modify my shipping label.

With the square scanner emblem presented, she printed a new shipping label and attached it to the package.

So, according to CP's new rules and the RCMP, my package is by the book.

It cost me double to ship because CP will not return the item once processed nor will they give a refund.

Lesson learned. I did not want to risk CP holding up the package to see if it complied with their rules and having it shipped back to me.

Side note, if you do open an account, pay for and print a label, and end up not shipping the item, they will refund your transaction. If you present it to a CP location, pay and hand it over, you will not get a refund should you change your mind and try to get the item back.

Learn from me. 1st hand


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 09, 2020 8:32 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 3997
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
Penage Guy wrote:
leadslinger wrote:
Well I can jump to conclusion because it happened shortly after the OIC ban, and it something the RCMP love to do. They make their own laws, that are not laws. RCMP was caught trying to tell airgun business that it either or, and not "and" with the speed/energy requirement.

Anyways..

You always had the options to ship with the current requirement to ship firearms, without an account.. Because why make it that it's required to sign up for a solution of small business account to ship it regular mail with signature and proof of age? Also print labels. Now the person has to buy a printer, scale etc. If it is not some forum of tracking what people are selling. It's a huge inconvenience for people that are not shipping much, or not online. I know alot of people at my club that doesn't have internet.

Also why would they say.

Quote:
Please contact the Canadian Firearms Program at https://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/en/firearms or by calling 1-800-731-4000 to determine whether it is permissible to ship your firearms.


Purolator sucks, 90% of my packages shipped by them arrive damaged.

BTW packages that require signatures ARE left at the door. Canada post said that they will do so if safe to do so... One of the reason why CP switched to proof of age required. Is that CP was leaving firearms on people door steps and they were being stolen. Forcing people to goto the post office and sign for it.

But again, you always had that option. And I don't think requiring signing up for an account is required.


To be sure, everyone is free to jump to conclusions, even if they are based on unproven conspiracy theories about the RCMP. None of the recent changes are part of a plot against gun owners.

If you don't want to ship by Canada Post, no one will force you to do so. There are other options. But if you do, you only need to open an account and have something to measure with. If you have a ruler and a bathroom scale you're all set. You don't need a printer as labels can be printed at the post office depot. Just like using this forum, you do need an internet connection and a device with which to use it. If you don't have that, find someone who does or get one yourself. (The internet fad will probably be here for another decade.)
If that's too much, someone who wishes to ship a firearm by Canada Post has the option to find someone with a PAL to ship it for him.

As for the question why there would be advice to contact the Canadian Firearms Program for information on whether you can ship your firearms, it might be worth considering that not all Canadians may be familiar with firearms shipping.

If someone didn't like Purolator damaging 90% of his packages, he should use another shipper. No one should continue to use a shipper that frequently damages packages. Try another shipper. Purolator's performance shouldn't disqualify all others.

Packages requiring signatures are being left at the door. During the pandemic postal carriers are not required to take signatures at the doorstep. These include all kinds of items. But packages containing firearms also require proof of age. This means that these packages must be picked up by an adult customer with identification at the local post office depot. This is to ensure minors can' receive firearms. It also helps prevent theft.

And it's worth taking a moment to consider how easy it still is to ship a firearm in Canada. It's now necessary to sign up for Canada Post's business solutions to print a shipping label. Once there's a shipping label, the firearm can be taken to the post office and shipped to the customer, just as in the past. In the US, a mailed firearm must be shipped to a Federal Firearms Licensed (FFL) dealer before a customer can go there and pick it up.


I ship alot more than you think I do, I've been shipping firearms for 15+ years, pre and post LGR. Well aware at the shipping requirements, and how easy. There is a reason why I had a small business account for over 5 years ( Would been longer but was afraid, opening a small business account means I had to file a business thru CRA ) Unfortunately with Amazon Prime free shipping. I don't get a choice of what services I get. I just file more complained with Purolator for damage packages. then any other shipping services. And I don't have a problem with Canada Post. I just have a problem with the new requirement. Because not everybody is a PC guru.

So again, I don't see the point of having a person sign up for a small business account in order to ship a firearm, when the services were already available for the current requirement for shipping. So that tells me it more of a inconvenience to make it harder for private sales, and nothing else. Because it def doesn't limit the contact that the workers need to come in contact. You still need to wait in line, you still need hand over the package and wait for them to scan it. Or get them to print out a label. Slap it on.

Then to pick up a package. I got to touch the mail box, grab the card.. Goto the post office, which depends on where it was.. The mini Grocery store, or main post office. Come in more contact with others, and use the machine that probably hasn't been clean to sign. VS me just waving and nodding at Fred, thru the door and saying okay. It's safe to leave it there. You know how I sign. Have a good day.

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I'm merely an Airgun plinker. I don't shoot 10m, FT or partake in Airgun competitions.


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