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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:53 pm 
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Hello, I recently bought a crosman phantom .22 500 version, and I upgraded the spring to the b18, it’s now shooting at around 700-715 with 14.3 grain pellets. My question tho is if I bought the .177 version of the phantom and also upgraded the spring, how fast would the .177 shoot, would it shoot like the .22 at 700 FPS or would it shoot much faster since it’s a .177? Thank you guys!
Ps: I have my PAL


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 2:01 pm 
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Location: Kingston, ON
It would shoot much faster since it’s a .177.

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HW97K .22
Hatsan AT44-10W .22
Cometa Fusion Premiere Star .22 /.177


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PostPosted: Tue Nov 10, 2020 6:38 pm 
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Location: GTA, ON
Calculation only.... 14.3g pellet on 700fps is about 16fpe. Muzzle energy won't make big difference on the same power plant, so with a 8.2g 177 pellet , 16fpe will make it fly out from the muzzle at 930fps...

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 6:57 am 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 1:08 am
Posts: 549
Location: Thunder Bay
I bought a .177 Fury (phantom without sights) from Airgun Depot in USA with a full power spring. It shot around 15-16 fpe (over 900 fps). I reduced the preload by 50% (cut the spacer in half) which detuned it to about 13.5-14 fpe. (around 850 fps) Hold sensitivity decreased a lot, and the gun shoots most pellets well now.
My .22 phantom is a Canadian model (actually shot at 425fps). I tried a full power spring and velocities were similar to yours. The gun was very hold sensitive, pellet picky, and had a very harsh shot cycle. I replaced the spring with the 12fpe spring from Crosman. I can't remember the part #. The gun now shoots 14.3gr pellets at about 630-640 fps and is easy to cock, not hold sensitive and shoots most pellets well. I do not miss the 80 or so fps.
Both guns noticeably "settled down" and are much more pleasant to shoot compared to a maximum velocity tune.
I find each of my springers to have its own "personality". Some shoot well at a maximum velocity tune, most benefit from a slight detune to find its sweet spot.

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12 springers and a couple of pumpers.
2 lathes and lots of scrap metal.

Too soon old too late smart.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 1:53 pm 
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ricksplace wrote:
I bought a .177 Fury (phantom without sights) from Airgun Depot in USA with a full power spring. It shot around 15-16 fpe (over 900 fps). I reduced the preload by 50% (cut the spacer in half) which detuned it to about 13.5-14 fpe. (around 850 fps) Hold sensitivity decreased a lot, and the gun shoots most pellets well now.
My .22 phantom is a Canadian model (actually shot at 425fps). I tried a full power spring and velocities were similar to yours. The gun was very hold sensitive, pellet picky, and had a very harsh shot cycle. I replaced the spring with the 12fpe spring from Crosman. I can't remember the part #. The gun now shoots 14.3gr pellets at about 630-640 fps and is easy to cock, not hold sensitive and shoots most pellets well. I do not miss the 80 or so fps.
Both guns noticeably "settled down" and are much more pleasant to shoot compared to a maximum velocity tune.
I find each of my springers to have its own "personality". Some shoot well at a maximum velocity tune, most benefit from a slight detune to find its sweet spot.


I did a similar thing with my Crosman F11, but instead of changing the spring/gas ram, I replaced the piston with a shorter one. The rifle is just as silent and shoots around 650fps depending on the pellet. Perfect backyard plinker and will easily get the job done for pesting.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 11, 2020 3:47 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:25 am
Posts: 3598
Location: Ontario, Canada
Michael_k wrote:
Hello, I recently bought a crosman phantom .22 500 version, and I upgraded the spring to the b18, it’s now shooting at around 700-715 with 14.3 grain pellets. My question tho is if I bought the .177 version of the phantom and also upgraded the spring, how fast would the .177 shoot, would it shoot like the .22 at 700 FPS or would it shoot much faster since it’s a .177? Thank you guys!
Ps: I have my PAL


The uptuned .177cal Phantom could shoot well over 700fps with 7.9gr pellets but you might not like the behaviour. I uptuned a .177cal Crosman Optimus that had a 170mm non-vented piston rather than the full power 150mm piston. The 33 coil (.118") spring was used. By varying the spacer thickness I was able to get 600 to 745 fps. A bit more power might be possible with the 36 coil (.122") spring but it would likely be harsh. I ended up settling on 630fps so it was similar to the HW30S/R7 power. Here are the details.

post498248.html?hilit=optimus#p498248

I also have a full power .177cal Optimus that was very harsh (150mm piston). After some break-in shooting it shot 960 fps. I ended up detuning it to 750-800 fps and it became a very sweet and accurate shooter. Here are the details.

topic75123.html?hilit=optimus


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 12:31 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2020 1:48 pm
Posts: 2
Hey thanks for the reply, and thanks for the links, I’m surprised that it only shoots at 700 FPS similar to the upturned .22. I thought it would be shooting much faster since it’s the same power plant but a way lighter pellet! Would it shoot way faster if the it was the shorter piston, because my .22 was a short piston and it actually surprisingly shoots very accurate and smooth.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:27 am 
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Posts: 3598
Location: Ontario, Canada
Michael_k wrote:
Hey thanks for the reply, and thanks for the links, I’m surprised that it only shoots at 700 FPS similar to the upturned .22. I thought it would be shooting much faster since it’s the same power plant but a way lighter pellet! Would it shoot way faster if the it was the shorter piston, because my .22 was a short piston and it actually surprisingly shoots very accurate and smooth.


I got 745fps with the longer 170mm piston and 7.9gr pellet. The second link shows what you get with the 150mm piston and the full power .122"/36 coil spring.... 960 fps with 7.9gr pellet. Here is what I got with various spacer sizes and the 150mm piston.

1 1/2” spacer = 960fps with CPHP ; 900fps with 8.64gr Stoeger X-Field
1” spacer = 900fps with CPHP
3/8” spacer = 800fps CPHP ; 760fps with Stoeger X-Field ; 770fps with 8.44gr JSB

I prefer the short 3/8" spacer. The firing behaviour is sweet and power is enough for plinking to 50-60 yards. I have even gone 75 yards on a windless day.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:12 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 1:08 am
Posts: 549
Location: Thunder Bay
TCooper wrote:
Michael_k wrote:
Hey thanks for the reply, and thanks for the links, I’m surprised that it only shoots at 700 FPS similar to the upturned .22. I thought it would be shooting much faster since it’s the same power plant but a way lighter pellet! Would it shoot way faster if the it was the shorter piston, because my .22 was a short piston and it actually surprisingly shoots very accurate and smooth.


I got 745fps with the longer 170mm piston and 7.9gr pellet. The second link shows what you get with the 150mm piston and the full power .122"/36 coil spring.... 960 fps with 7.9gr pellet. Here is what I got with various spacer sizes and the 150mm piston.

1 1/2” spacer = 960fps with CPHP ; 900fps with 8.64gr Stoeger X-Field
1” spacer = 900fps with CPHP
3/8” spacer = 800fps CPHP ; 760fps with Stoeger X-Field ; 770fps with 8.44gr JSB

I prefer the short 3/8" spacer. The firing behaviour is sweet and power is enough for plinking to 50-60 yards. I have even gone 75 yards on a windless day.


I have a 3/4" spacer in my Fury springer. Yep, 850 fps with cphp!

_________________
12 springers and a couple of pumpers.
2 lathes and lots of scrap metal.

Too soon old too late smart.


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PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:02 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 7077
Location: P.G. B.C.
ricksplace wrote:
I bought a .177 Fury (phantom without sights) from Airgun Depot in USA with a full power spring. It shot around 15-16 fpe (over 900 fps). I reduced the preload by 50% (cut the spacer in half) which detuned it to about 13.5-14 fpe. (around 850 fps) Hold sensitivity decreased a lot, and the gun shoots most pellets well now.
My .22 phantom is a Canadian model (actually shot at 425fps). I tried a full power spring and velocities were similar to yours. The gun was very hold sensitive, pellet picky, and had a very harsh shot cycle. I replaced the spring with the 12fpe spring from Crosman. I can't remember the part #. The gun now shoots 14.3gr pellets at about 630-640 fps and is easy to cock, not hold sensitive and shoots most pellets well. I do not miss the 80 or so fps.
Both guns noticeably "settled down" and are much more pleasant to shoot compared to a maximum velocity tune.
I find each of my springers to have its own "personality". Some shoot well at a maximum velocity tune, most benefit from a slight detune to find its sweet spot.


This "sweet spot" area of 14 to 15fpe might be why my HW springers appear to have been tuned to that level, whether .177 or .22.
Mine are that way, shoot very well (both calibres) and are not hold sensitive. The hold does change the point of impact, but not the accuracy
for the most part.

When resting, using the artillery hold, middle of the forend, in the hand middle of the forend, or fingers around the end of the forend doesn't seem to matter, accuracy wise.

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Best Wishes
Daryl


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:32 pm
Posts: 20
Michael_k wrote:
Hello, I recently bought a crosman phantom .22 500 version, and I upgraded the spring to the b18, it’s now shooting at around 700-715 with 14.3 grain pellets. My question tho is if I bought the .177 version of the phantom and also upgraded the spring, how fast would the .177 shoot, would it shoot like the .22 at 700 FPS or would it shoot much faster since it’s a .177? Thank you guys!
Ps: I have my PAL



Do you happen to remember the part number for what you got? I have a Phantom .22 500 model that I am looking to revive as well.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 3998
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
mwarden62009 wrote:
Michael_k wrote:
Hello, I recently bought a crosman phantom .22 500 version, and I upgraded the spring to the b18, it’s now shooting at around 700-715 with 14.3 grain pellets. My question tho is if I bought the .177 version of the phantom and also upgraded the spring, how fast would the .177 shoot, would it shoot like the .22 at 700 FPS or would it shoot much faster since it’s a .177? Thank you guys!
Ps: I have my PAL



Do you happen to remember the part number for what you got? I have a Phantom .22 500 model that I am looking to revive as well.


B18-00-4D

It's asked enough, that I just remember the part #.

_________________
I'm merely an Airgun plinker. I don't shoot 10m, FT or partake in Airgun competitions.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 7:51 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:32 pm
Posts: 20
Attachment:
WIN_20201116_19_12_04_Pro.jpg
WIN_20201116_19_12_04_Pro.jpg [ 159.11 KiB | Viewed 75 times ]
Thank you very much!! Did you have to get any other parts? I believe I have the short piston in mine. You can see how far the barrel goes when calked. And do you recommend anything else while i have it apart?


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:39 pm 
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Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2020 6:32 pm
Posts: 20
leadslinger wrote:
mwarden62009 wrote:
Michael_k wrote:
Hello, I recently bought a crosman phantom .22 500 version, and I upgraded the spring to the b18, it’s now shooting at around 700-715 with 14.3 grain pellets. My question tho is if I bought the .177 version of the phantom and also upgraded the spring, how fast would the .177 shoot, would it shoot like the .22 at 700 FPS or would it shoot much faster since it’s a .177? Thank you guys!
Ps: I have my PAL



Do you happen to remember the part number for what you got? I have a Phantom .22 500 model that I am looking to revive as well.


B18-00-4D

It's asked enough, that I just remember the part #.



Thanks for the part number. Is that the one you put in the .22? And did you need any other parts? I am pretty sure I have the short piston in mine already, just want to make sure that I do everything while it is apart the first time!!


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 9:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 3998
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
mwarden62009 wrote:

Thanks for the part number. Is that the one you put in the .22? And did you need any other parts? I am pretty sure I have the short piston in mine already, just want to make sure that I do everything while it is apart the first time!!


Yes, when I upgraded my 22 Phantom years ago. But that all I'll say about increasing power. Search the site, you'll find bunch of tune threads.

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I'm merely an Airgun plinker. I don't shoot 10m, FT or partake in Airgun competitions.


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