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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:29 am 
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Location: Caronport, Saskatchewan
Here's the wording concerning air guns in Bill C-21 summary report
https://www.publicsafety.gc.ca/cnt/cntr ... 21-en.aspx
Ensure mid-velocity 'replica' firearms are prohibited

Update the Criminal Code to ensure that any device, including an unregulated airgun that looks exactly like a conventional regulated firearm (i.e., shoots over 500 feet per second), is prohibited for the purposes of import, export, sale and transfer.

Current owners may keep their 'replicas' but cannot transfer them to anyone else.

No further 'replica' firearms could be imported into, or sold/transferred in Canada.

This amendment does not affect other types of airguns that do not exactly replicate a conventional regulated firearm.

Here's the change to definition of a replica firearm in the bill:

"replica firearm means any device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, a firearm that is designed or adapted to discharge a shot, bullet or other projectile at a muzzle velocity exceeding 152.‍4 m per second and at a muzzle energy exceeding 5.‍7 Joules, and that itself is not a firearm, but does not include any such device that is designed or intended to exactly resemble, or to resemble with near precision, an antique firearm; (réplique)" https://parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/43-2/ ... st-reading

This is bad news all around and it's intent is to make all replica air pistols and rifles prohibited.
That's bad enough.
But as the RCMP Firearms program dealt with my application for the Xisico XS120D, so they will interpret this legislation the same. They denied my application for the XS120D dual cal pistol because it is a clone of the Beeman P17 but shoots in 22 too slow and so they decided it would be rated a replica firearm and prohibited. They asked to have one sent and tested. I declined.
This is a weird case but shows that they take seriously the government deeming air guns as firearms.
So if you look at the wording they are saying that any rifle or pistol that looks exactly the same as any regulated firearm (over 500fps) will become prohibited. Well, we all know any air rifle or air pistol over 500fps is deemed a regulated firearm, so any detuned version of those air rifles and pistols will also now be deemed prohibited by the firearms program and not be allowed to be imported or sold in Canada.. Most air rifles in Canada at sub 500fps and a lot of pistols are detuned models that have a above 500fps version. Even classics like the Crosman 1377 or 1322, since the 1322 looks like a 1377, would be prohibited if they don't put a clause in there like they did with antique firearms.
They are in danger of wiping out the sub 500fps airgun industry in Canada and will make it necessary to have a firearms license to own any airgun if they continue this way.
Of course this might be amended if enough of us cry out about it. I've emailed my MP about it. I've asked the firearms program about it as well. They said they had no input into making the law, and could understand why I'd be concerned.

The last clause either shows they don't know what they did when they wrote the earlier statement and hadn't intended to end up banning most sub 500fps Airguns, or it is intended to obscure what they actually are doing. I won't speculate on which is true, but it's our job to make sure they know what their wording will do.

Whether it gets amended or not to add a clause exempting low power versions of other airguns, it's a sad day to see them prohibiting all the replica airguns in Canada, which is very clearly their intention.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:44 am 
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I do not understand the meaning of "replica" in the text.

Does that mean that if it vaguely resembles a firearm it would be prohibited (example: Crosman C11, Umarex T4E) or if it is the exact copy of an existing firearm (example: Umarex legend makarov )?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:49 am 
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Skx wrote:
I do not understand the meaning of "replica" in the text.

Does that mean that if it vaguely resembles a firearm it would be prohibited (example: Crosman C11, Umarex T4E) or if it is the exact copy of an existing firearm (example: Umarex legend makarov )?


I think it is subjective to the folks who enforce the law, so they may include both vague and or exact copies of firearms.
These types of guns are considered "gateway guns" by a group of medical experts in this country who want them banned for the safety of our society.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 2:30 am 
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windage wrote:
Skx wrote:
I do not understand the meaning of "replica" in the text.

Does that mean that if it vaguely resembles a firearm it would be prohibited (example: Crosman C11, Umarex T4E) or if it is the exact copy of an existing firearm (example: Umarex legend makarov )?


I think it is subjective to the folks who enforce the law, so they may include both vague and or exact copies of firearms.
These types of guns are considered "gateway guns" by a group of medical experts in this country who want them banned for the safety of our society.


I don't understand their logic. If criminals turn to air guns because they are visually realistic rather than using real guns ... that's a good thing, right?
The junky who points a merchant to steal it, will do a lot less damage with the accidental shot of a BB lead than with a 357 magnum, I think.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 5:12 am 
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Location: Dowling ,ontario
Letter has been sent to my PM. Joined both the CCFR and CSSA right after reading about this. This is not what I would call a free democratic society. The gun ban from last year was bad enough, now this.

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 6:51 am 
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Skx wrote:
I don't understand their logic. If criminals turn to air guns because they are visually realistic rather than using real guns ... that's a good thing, right?


If only these laws were meant for criminals.....

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 8:18 am 
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Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
Skx wrote:
windage wrote:
Skx wrote:
I do not understand the meaning of "replica" in the text.

Does that mean that if it vaguely resembles a firearm it would be prohibited (example: Crosman C11, Umarex T4E) or if it is the exact copy of an existing firearm (example: Umarex legend makarov )?


I think it is subjective to the folks who enforce the law, so they may include both vague and or exact copies of firearms.
These types of guns are considered "gateway guns" by a group of medical experts in this country who want them banned for the safety of our society.



I don't understand their logic. If criminals turn to air guns because they are visually realistic rather than using real guns ... that's a good thing, right?
The junky who points a merchant to steal it, will do a lot less damage with the accidental shot of a BB lead than with a 357 magnum, I think.


How is that good? Still using it for criminal nature. What about the Police officer fear for his life, thinking the perp has a gun. FYI you cannot tell what anything is, when it being pointed towards you. And got split second to choose. Shoot someone else? Then find out it was just a BB gun, that guy has to live with it his rest of his life.

Then government bans the gateway gun. I bet 70% of those who shoot, started off with airguns. And we lose out on privates because someone bad did something.

Personal I rather them go after firearms and the how illegally did that person acquire it.. And fix the real issues like smuggling.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 10:22 am 
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leadslinger wrote:

How is that good? Still using it for criminal nature. What about the Police officer fear for his life, thinking the perp has a gun. FYI you cannot tell what anything is, when it being pointed towards you. And got split second to choose. Shoot someone else? Then find out it was just a BB gun, that guy has to live with it his rest of his life.


In my opinion if a criminal decides to use a toy gun to commit a crime, it doesn't have to be airgun replica, it can be a gun carved from wood or printed on 3D printer. Or a blue trainer gun painted black. Logically thinking if we are talking about a split second - anything gun-like pointed at a cop will be treated as a real gun. (hope it's not a political or ideological post : )


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:01 am 
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Location: Winnipeg MB
lauchlin & others. Could you please explain to us, how, not discussing the issue of the changes to Canadian laws to prohibit most airguns, is a positive thing.

I see this new law as the end of our hobby. Taking it from something that is semi accessible (i.e. I can still buy airguns at most smaller hardware stores) , and making it into a hobby that would make Ham radio look mainstream. (My apologies to all the Ham radio buffs out there).

I can see how you do not want to change this into a political forum, but does anyone on this forum think the proposed law is a good idea?


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:26 am 
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Location: Brantford, Ontario
Skx wrote:
I do not understand the meaning of "replica" in the text.

Does that mean that if it vaguely resembles a firearm it would be prohibited (example: Crosman C11, Umarex T4E) or if it is the exact copy of an existing firearm (example: Umarex legend makarov )?


It has to look almost "exactly" like an actual firearm. Air guns that are not exact replicas will not be affected. Pretty much anything made my Umarex would be illegal to import, buy or sell. Most things Beeman or Crosman (e.g, 2240, 1377, etc) would be just fine under the law.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:27 am 
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Location: Brantford, Ontario
lauchlin wrote:
Forum rule forum34.html

1 Political, religious, ideological posts are not allowed.


I don't see this as a political post. This is a critical issue to our sport. People need to get this information out there so that they can be prepared for it and can take action to oppose it and make their displeasure known.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:34 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:52 pm
Posts: 7606
Location: Vancouver Island BC
BB1Shooter wrote:
lauchlin & others. Could you please explain to us, how, not discussing the issue of the changes to Canadian laws to prohibit most airguns, is a positive thing.

I see this new law as the end of our hobby. Taking it from something that is semi accessible (i.e. I can still buy airguns at most smaller hardware stores) , and making it into a hobby that would make Ham radio look mainstream. (My apologies to all the Ham radio buffs out there).

I can see how you do not want to change this into a political forum, but does anyone on this forum think the proposed law is a good idea?


So far its fine just keep to dull roar i lock them when post start going all over the place or not even close to topic but there is nothing wrong with this thread please care on ...How about you mod this thread i wont touch it till you ask a post to be remove me or a mod will remove it use forum rule as your guided .... how is that ..........

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 11:51 am 
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Location: Spruce Grove AB
Since it seems like a grey area where the line is between replicas and real the real things, it is concerning. As wesb2007 stated that even the lowly 1377 is a detuned version of a restricted firearm. Guys with high dollar target pistols are going to get stung pretty badly. The whole thing is scary.

I think it's safe to say everyone in the hobby is going to feel the effects of this new law.

It sucks, but what really can we do?

I'll be doing my part and following other's advice, by joining the voices we do have.


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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 12:10 pm 
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Location: Waterdown, Ontario
So I have a replica Sig. Sauer SP2022 bb handgun at 350fps. Is it now prohibited?

Mike

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PostPosted: Thu Feb 18, 2021 1:04 pm 
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Replica, variant, and greenfield.

Three terms that will be used to take them all.

Nothing is safe, and anyone that voted for Mr. T can only blame themselves for not understanding where he is taking us!

Glad I am 60, but my kids will never understand what most allowed to happen. Everything that is falling into place is what my father warned me of years ago after he escaped from Germany.

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