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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 10:27 am 
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Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:30 pm
Posts: 195
Location: Edmonton
Hello all!

I want to fabricate an aluminum muzzle break for my TX200 HC .22 caliber.
My questions are: what size should I bore the hole? 0.25?
Will the hole size affect accuracy, or the whole device for that matter?
What is the thread? I assume metric?

I will be machining it on my Sherline lathe. I have the threading attachment.

Thank you.

M.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:12 pm 
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Location: Canada
Hi Max,

If it's just for bling or as a cocking aid, I would go with .25".

Some thoughts;

Concentricity is a key factor, the closer the brake is to bore size the more important concentric is. Both to avoid clipping, and to avoid "higher" pressure spots developing between the brake and the pellet...this due to displacement of the air in the brake rather than the propulsion air.

Another thing you might consider is stepping up the diameter after you start stripping off propulsion air...increasing the diameter causes what's left of the flow behind the pellet to slow down...like water going from a small pipe into a large one, will create a low pressure area at the step that pulls the flow stream apart and slows it.

Can take that a little further...only the entrance to the cone needs to be near bore size...the rest of it can open up in steps or on a taper. This would be a helpful "cheat" if things are not as concentric as they might otherwise be...only the entrance would need critical alignment.

At least that's my take on it. :rolleyes:

Good to see you around. :)

Al


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 26, 2021 6:20 pm 
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Location: GTA, ON
I measured my muzzle brakes from different makes, and they are between 6.9mm to 7mm...

To my experience, they looks a bit too big for 177 but for sure impossible for clipping... But need very carefully centered when installed on a .22...

Just a reference...

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FWB300S Universal
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:17 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:30 pm
Posts: 195
Location: Edmonton
Thank you.

To answer your question Al, it's not a cocking aid, the TX200 is an under lever and being the HC (hunter's carbine) model, it has a factory installed cocking aid already. Bling? Yes and no. The thing is I installed a 6-24x56 scope on it. It is over 17" long and it looks out of proportion with the rifle. That, and it changed the centre of gravity slightly. I'd like to return it to where it was before, in front of the trigger guard. Also, I though that adding perhaps 3" or so to the barrel would be more aesthetically pleasing with that big scope and shift the weight forward a little. I planned on using it to hold my windicator too. I can maybe install a pin on it to serve as a front sight for those close shots aiming through the see-through scope rings. Not sure about that one though.

Essentially, I planned on reproducing the shape of the factory plenum but adding length to it.

My 3 jaw chuck runs within 0.002". I would bore the hole using my steady rest, then turn the remaining steps between centres with my face plate and dog to assure concentricity. The head and tail stocks align perfectly. Sherline lathes and mills are outstanding little machines. Love 'em! I would also single point the thread once I figure out the pitch. Anything wrong with this approach that you can see?

YepYep, thank you for the measurements. I took 6.99mm and converted it to 0.275". Minus 0.22", the theoretical diameter of a pellet, I obtained 0.055"
That gives 0.0275 clearance around the pellet. That is really close, I can see how concentricity is of utmost importance. If I bore at 0.25" as Al suggested, there is even less than that. Lothar Walther barrels on the TX's are choked, so there would be a little more room but still...

Say, with your muzzle breaks, have you noticed any ill effect on grouping with .177 or .22? I imagine that with that king of close tolerances in .22, it almost act as a longer barrel. Have you noticed an increase in FPS?

So, if I understand correctly, the hole should be bored either very close the the barrel bore or way bigger? I can always measure the bore size in the factory plenum and go with that, it's not clipping now and I doubt it would if I make one longer but I am mainly concern about loosing accuracy. If it doesn't work, I can trash it and chalk it up to experience.

Thank you.

M.


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:02 pm 
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Location: GTA, ON
Yep ~ that's a trial and error matter and so far I didn't read anything that really make a common sense but just individual cases studies...

To my experience, as I didn't shoot high Power or far distance, so far I didn't find my brakes do bad affect on grouping but the POI is different with or without the brake.

Would you think about air striper? IMO, it's an adjustable muzzle brake that you can adjust and fine tune the air flow to make good affect to help the pellet flies better... At least not only bad affects to open up the group...

And the TX has a thick nicely blued shround... You have found the way to install the brake already, right?

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AA ProSport 177 walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine
Camo Chaser long barrel carbine
PP700SA long barrel carbine


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PostPosted: Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:35 pm 
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Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:15 am
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Location: Edmonton
altashot wrote:
Hello all!

I want to fabricate an aluminum muzzle break for my TX200 HC .22 caliber.
My questions are: what size should I bore the hole? 0.25?
Will the hole size affect accuracy, or the whole device for that matter?
What is the thread? I assume metric?

I will be machining it on my Sherline lathe. I have the threading attachment.

Thank you.

M.


Al (Gipetto) is one of our top sources for info like this on this forum. I'd suggest you PM him with questions about technical execution. He's always willing to help out, and your information will be more than anecdotal.


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 9:21 am 
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Location: Canada
Thanks Murray. :drinkers:


altashot wrote:
Thank you.

My 3 jaw chuck runs within 0.002". I would bore the hole using my steady rest, then turn the remaining steps between centers with my face plate and dog to assure concentricity. The head and tail stocks align perfectly. Sherline lathes and mills are outstanding little machines. Love 'em! I would also single point the thread once I figure out the pitch. Anything wrong with this approach that you can see?

I do not see a problem.

So, if I understand correctly, the hole should be bored either very close the the barrel bore or way bigger?

Correct. If you want the brake/stripper to be functional, the closer (without clipping) the better. As a weight to alter CG or to increase sight radius an oversized bore on it is a non issue. This would make it more along the lines of a "bloop tube" than a brake.



Al


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PostPosted: Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:32 am 
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Location: P.G. B.C.
altashot wrote:
Thank you.

The thing is I installed a 6-24x56 scope on it. It is over 17" long and it looks out of proportion with the rifle.

M.


Something like this?


Attachments:
IMG_2635.JPG
IMG_2635.JPG [ 32.02 KiB | Viewed 249 times ]

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 12:38 pm 
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Posts: 195
Location: Edmonton
Well, I made it yesterday.

This black plastic piece, I think is called a plenum, is original to the rifle. Upon removing it and firing the gun, it did not appear to affect accuracy but sound level. Well, not really the level but the quality of the sound. Hard to explain but it sounds different without it.
So, to err on the side of caution I made my muzzle break with this plenum built into it.

The barrel shroud was threaded 1/2 unf or 1/2-20. This was easy to cut on my lathe.

I’ll see what it does at the range. It didn’t really add much weight so the balance didn’t change much. I’ll have to get used to it. Looks cool though.

M.


Attachments:
4712C218-9364-4775-83FE-9DAE8D144367.jpeg
4712C218-9364-4775-83FE-9DAE8D144367.jpeg [ 330.76 KiB | Viewed 168 times ]
2DA338D5-D11C-41A8-B950-F4566DA9EF35.jpeg
2DA338D5-D11C-41A8-B950-F4566DA9EF35.jpeg [ 490.85 KiB | Viewed 168 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:18 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
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Location: P.G. B.C.
Interestingly long piece of plastic. Now, that brings to mind the question, how long is the actual barrel length, on the AArms TX200HC?

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:30 pm
Posts: 195
Location: Edmonton
Breach to muzzle, 9”.
The shroud protrudes about 1 1/2” beyond the muzzle.
The plenum doesn’t contact the end of the muzzle, there is a 3/8” gap or so.
I am not sure why it is built that way, maybe some kind of stripper?
It must redirect the air inside the hollow shroud.

M.


Last edited by altashot on Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:26 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 3264
Location: GTA, ON
altashot wrote:
Well, I made it yesterday.

This black plastic piece, I think is called a plenum, is original to the rifle. Upon removing it and firing the gun, it did not appear to affect accuracy but sound level. Well, not really the level but the quality of the sound. Hard to explain but it sounds different without it.
So, to err on the side of caution I made my muzzle break with this plenum built into it.

The barrel shroud was threaded 1/2 unf or 1/2-20. This was easy to cut on my lathe.

I’ll see what it does at the range. It didn’t really add much weight so the balance didn’t change much. I’ll have to get used to it. Looks cool though.

M.
Well! The bling piece looks great!!

So, can I say it is already a matured product which ppl can just remove (screwed out) the factory inner black plastic piece from their TX barrel (includes the 200, HC and PS I think) and easily put this it?!

I DO want one for my PS~

_________________
AA ProSport 177 walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine
Camo Chaser long barrel carbine
PP700SA long barrel carbine


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 1:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 3264
Location: GTA, ON
altashot wrote:
Breach to muzzle, 9”.
The shroud protrudes about 1 1/2” beyond the muzzle.
The plenum doesn’t contact the end of the muzzle, there is a 3/8” gap or so.
I am not sure why it is built that way, maybe some kind of stripper?
It must redirect the air inside the hollow shroud.

M.
If this setting didn't affect the accuracy (the air flow being directed back into the shroud makes air turbulence), the only effort it's doing would be making a different muzzle report...

Edit: if it affects the accuracy, it's working as a air stripper then~

By the way, show us your HC with that nicely built brake~ please~ :D

_________________
AA ProSport 177 walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine
Camo Chaser long barrel carbine
PP700SA long barrel carbine


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 2:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Sep 09, 2011 11:30 pm
Posts: 195
Location: Edmonton
The rifle is currently all apart. No current pictures.
I did all the power plant a few years ago with new spring guide ant top hat.
The trigger bits were also all polished to a mirror finish and lubed with moly which I burnished in. My understanding is that once it is burnished in, it’s there forever.
Now I want a new trigger blade. I like the one from Rowan Engineering, the curved one but I’d like it set further back. I might make a copy of it or maybe an adjustable trigger shoe. Not sure yet. I also want to add nylon or Delrin tips to the adjustments screws to reduce friction even further.

I promise to post pictures once completed.

M.


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PostPosted: Sun Apr 04, 2021 4:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 7675
Location: P.G. B.C.
So - the barrel is the same length as the HW97's bl. Tks.

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