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PostPosted: Mon May 17, 2021 9:48 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 163
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
ricksplace wrote:
Hi Steve.

Rather than pay me back, how about paying it forward? A random act of kindness makes everyone feel good, me included. Caution: Wife may wonder what you've been up to!
As for the secret document, if it looks like your printed targets, I'm in!

I'll pm my address to you.
Thanks, I can accept this kindness, too. Forgive me, not used to it.

_________________
Stephen

Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, CenterPoint 4x32

Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO

Cometa Fusion .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO

SPA Wildfire600 .22 495 fps

Daisy Grizzly 840


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 6:25 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 163
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
eSteve wrote:
Maybe there’s a B3 in my future.

Thanks, I won’t be getting another rifle any time soon.

Ok, I think I'm getting the B3 vibe.

But I think my wrenching days are over for a while.

I think I'd really like to get one of these rifles.

Yeah! I ordered the thing: WF600 - .22
Got 'im! Wildfire600 from Snow Peak Airgun! It's way more handsome than I thought it'd be. And seems quite light when you hold it. But you can see spots of filler in the stock, like I've read about, under the heavy finish. I'll open it up in the light of day. Stoked!


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_________________
Stephen

Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, CenterPoint 4x32

Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO

Cometa Fusion .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO

SPA Wildfire600 .22 495 fps

Daisy Grizzly 840
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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 1:08 am
Posts: 657
Location: Thunder Bay
Welcome to the fold!

I'm having fun making your guide/spacer parts. Should have them finished this weekend. Ship out Tuesday.

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the dreaded "thumb guillotine". You will need to push the pellet into the breach with your thumb when the gun is cocked. There is a functioning bear trap safety that blocks the trigger until the cocking lever is returned to latch. Regardless, with this style of underlever, it's important to always hang on to the cocking lever when loading the pellet. I'm sure you knew all this, but I said it anyway. You never know who reads this stuff.

Enjoy your new acquisition!

_________________
13 springers and a few pumpers.
2 lathes and lots of scrap metal.

Too soon old too late smart.


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 2:48 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:17 pm
Posts: 2718
Location: Kingston, ON
It's a long tread here and admittedly I have been only following sporadically, so excuse if already posted but here is a link to Pyramid 5 part series on the B3. I remember the dire warnings about the guillotine, with pictures of mangled fingers to back it up. Yeeeh.
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2018/04 ... er-part-5/

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Duke ))))----//----------==


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PostPosted: Sat May 22, 2021 3:42 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 163
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
ricksplace wrote:
Welcome to the fold!

I'm surprised no one has mentioned the dreaded "thumb guillotine". with this style of underlever, it's important to always hang on to the cocking lever when loading the pellet.

Enjoy your new acquisition!
Thank you Rick. This is all nothing but awesome.

I had read a little about the guillotine. Yes, I've thought I'd better keep a hand on the lever until loading is done.

And thanks Duke for this link, I'll be going over that real well.

"here is a link to Pyramid 5 part series on the B3. I remember the dire warnings about the guillotine, with pictures of mangled fingers to back it up. Yeeeh.
https://www.pyramydair.com/blog/2018/04 ... er-part-5/"

I've removed the stock and taped those pins on the trigger. I'm going to look and see if I can fit this rifle in my spring compressor. Any tips before I open him up?

Cheers gents

_________________
Stephen

Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, CenterPoint 4x32

Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO

Cometa Fusion .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO

SPA Wildfire600 .22 495 fps

Daisy Grizzly 840


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PostPosted: Sun May 23, 2021 2:05 am 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 1:08 am
Posts: 657
Location: Thunder Bay
Thanks for the reference, Duke.
There was a competition years ago by the Kermit airgun club for modding B3s. There were categories like highest velocity, best custom stock, weirdest stock mods, and so on. I have not been able to find the site again.
Here's a reference I found from around that same time.
https://web.archive.org/web/20150215215 ... _procedure

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13 springers and a few pumpers.
2 lathes and lots of scrap metal.

Too soon old too late smart.


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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 6:08 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 1:08 am
Posts: 657
Location: Thunder Bay
Finished Steve's parts.

Top left is a copy of the three-tiered spacer found in Crosman B18s, but in pieces.
The three spacers below them are for tuning to the preload you want.
The dremel stone is for deburring the breach. (I have a ridiculous number of dremel bits)
The little tub is full of Loctite 70% moly paste (the good stuff). Probably enough to lube 5 or 6 guns at least.
Next are the WF600 parts. Top hat and two thrust washers. Dunno why i made two when only one is needed. The extra one can be used as a spacer. Actually, all the spacers will fit either B18s or WF600s.
The new aluminum guide for the WF600 is on the far right
I'll ship them tomorrow.

Have fun!


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_________________
13 springers and a few pumpers.
2 lathes and lots of scrap metal.

Too soon old too late smart.
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 6:36 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:17 pm
Posts: 2718
Location: Kingston, ON
ricksplace wrote:
Finished Steve's parts.
Have fun!

The only thing missing is the Christmas tree... :drinkers:

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Duke ))))----//----------==


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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 7:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 3405
Location: GTA, ON
Dukemeister wrote:
ricksplace wrote:
Finished Steve's parts.
Have fun!

The only thing missing is the Christmas tree... :drinkers:
Yep! And maybe further more is a dog or (and) a cat under the tree...

Very nice parts, can see that quality from the picture easily!

_________________
AA ProSport 177 walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine
Camo Chaser long barrel carbine
PP700SA long barrel carbine


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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 1:32 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 163
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
ricksplace wrote:
Finished Steve's parts.

Have fun!
Rick, that is truly amazing! Can hardly wait to test it all. Thanks!

_________________
Stephen

Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, CenterPoint 4x32

Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO

Cometa Fusion .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO

SPA Wildfire600 .22 495 fps

Daisy Grizzly 840


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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 10:26 am 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 1:08 am
Posts: 657
Location: Thunder Bay
Ran some 5.50 H&N 13.77gr Sport over the chrony this morning.
No wonder it's accurate with these pellets.

First string: 498.6, 498.4, 498.1, 498.4, 498.3
Second string: 498.7, 498.4, 498.6, 499.1, 498.8

Max spread of each of these two strings is less than 1 fps.
Also, while not intended in the tune, I don't think you could get closer to 500fps without going over! Purely coincidental.

None of my other springers shoot anywhere near this consistent.
And a cheap gun too. Go figure!

Another keeper!

Got Steve's targets in the mail today. Beats my black marker dots all to heck.

_________________
13 springers and a few pumpers.
2 lathes and lots of scrap metal.

Too soon old too late smart.


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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 11:56 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:04 am
Posts: 1015
Numbers that make regulated pcp's envious.

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I have some airguns.


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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 12:12 pm 
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Posts: 3405
Location: GTA, ON
Yeah! Those numbers just proved the whole setup from inside out and the pellets just a prefect matched set!

通过我的 SM-G960W 上的 Tapatalk发言

_________________
AA ProSport 177 walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine
Camo Chaser long barrel carbine
PP700SA long barrel carbine


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PostPosted: Fri May 28, 2021 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 163
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
ricksplace wrote:
Ran some 5.50 H&N 13.77gr Sport over the chrony this morning.
No wonder it's accurate with these pellets.

First string: 498.6, 498.4, 498.1, 498.4, 498.3
Second string: 498.7, 498.4, 498.6, 499.1, 498.8

Max spread of each of these two strings is less than 1 fps.
None of my other springers shoot anywhere near this consistent.
And a cheap gun too. Go figure!

Another keeper!

Got Steve's targets in the mail today. Beats my black marker dots all to heck.
Those are amazing numbers. The chrony session with my WF is remarkably similar. There’s something about these rifles.

More targets to come.

_________________
Stephen

Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, CenterPoint 4x32

Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO

Cometa Fusion .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO

SPA Wildfire600 .22 495 fps

Daisy Grizzly 840


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:27 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 163
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
Yes, very fun and rewarding work with this rifle.

I opened it up to have a look inside before shooting. Contrary to all the stories I read about rough manufacturing and shoddy assembly, I found my WF rather well-made. It was lubed correctly. The inside of the piston looked a little rough. I reassembled and shot this first chrony session and yeah, I don’t see Deviation this low so much.

This rifle has no scope mount stop pin hole. I thought I’d better use the one-piece Crosman mount from the Optimus. Swapped it out for the pair of rings from the CP 4x32, it was a bit of work, and got the one-piece on the WF. I was scoped.

I was excited that this rifle can share the Crosman springs. Perhaps I could bring this .22 up into the 600 fps range? I started doing spring swaps and chrony sessions. But the gains in velocity were marginal. The rifle just got louder and harder to hold. This puzzled me.

Stuff I learned and did during all this work:

The underlever cocking system was new to me, I found it rough and clunky, but not difficult to pull. The trigger was quite good, different from the Crosmen. It was a short pull and not too hard. But there was a clunk in the middle that made release abrupt and a bit difficult to control. But it was clear the rifle wanted to shoot straight.

When I started to chrony the strongest spring, the scope mount came off. I reinstalled but the rifle threw it again. It’s a good thing it was just the CP scope, it went to the floor both times. It looks like the doves on the rifle are a bit shallow. And the bottom of the gripping edge on one side of the mount seemed sort of round, like it might impede getting under the dove. So I had to swap mounts with the Optimus again. A bit of work. But I was scoped again.

Cocking became grating and very rough. Like Rick has said, one of the stock screws started protruding into the cocking arm. Yikes. So I did some work on the screw holes and got a couple little washers, no more rubbing. Then after one of the spring swaps, cocking got super clunky, a big click at the start. The area on the bottom, where the cocking arm slides against the receiver, not smooth. There’s a step, and some very rough grinding down there. I filed down that area and put some moly on it. And I realized I didn’t have to make the hinge screw tight at all, it has nothing to do with shooting or accuracy, and it’s held in place by the stock. So cocking became a dream, very light and smooth. Still clunky at the end, it just is.

And I was disassembling the trigger, not many pieces, didn’t know how I was going to smooth that out. But I started polishing the piston and lubing the contact area. The trigger was getting a bit smooth.

I had trouble measuring the inside of the piston for a liner. It seemed a bit corroded in there too, pitted maybe. After 3 easy and effective liner installations on the Crosmen, I was totally struggling with the WF. It was a small bitter pill.

Then I received the parts package, freshly machined by air rifle buddy Rick.

The WF has no top hat in the piston/spring assembly, but I had one now! I used it to get a dimension for the liner. Worked perfect, liner went right in. I had polished the inside of the piston first.

I was still puzzled that stronger springs didn’t increase velocity. I thought that if preload was reduced, the springs might have room to produce more power. The only way I could think of to do this was remove the middle step on the spring guide. Since I had a new aluminum one, I could take a knife to the old, plastic one and create . . . the Frankenguide! This was a sort of fool’s errand, but fun! I was already starting to think that the volume of air was the limiting factor. Then Rick schooled me on the concept of swept volume. But I was already on my way. I slapped a thrust bearing on it. No power increase. Swept volume rules.

And I was happy that there were no more spring swaps. This low end springer is just a solid, and perhaps funky and unfashionable, 500 fps shooter. Cool.


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_________________
Stephen

Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, CenterPoint 4x32

Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO

Cometa Fusion .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO

SPA Wildfire600 .22 495 fps

Daisy Grizzly 840
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