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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:05 am 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 1:08 am
Posts: 647
Location: Thunder Bay
If that bottom right target (the one with three shots touching) was mine, I would assume the other two shots were due to my hold, or maybe how I held my tongue, or maybe I shaved one side of my face closer than the other that morning. It doesn't take much. Could be pellets too. It appears to me that your tuning efforts have produced an accurate gun. Find the right pellet and more practice should give you those tight, round groups with all holes touching that we all strive for.
"You have done well, grasshopper" (apologies to Kung Fu, the series)
An expensive gun that doesn't require tuning is a joy to shoot and look at, but as the rooster said to the Priest, "You're missing half the fun".

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13 springers and a few pumpers.
2 lathes and lots of scrap metal.

Too soon old too late smart.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:31 am 
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Location: GTA, ON
Have been following up this story...

Forgot to ask, I know you tried and put different power plants into the gun... How's the accuracy / grouping changed with that? Pretty sure like a lower power would make it less sensitive etc...

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AA ProSport 177 walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine
Camo Chaser long barrel carbine
PP700SA long barrel carbine


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 6:40 am 
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Location: Thunder Bay
Edmonton<500 wrote:
I have never seen a post with a basic initial goal (improve a firearm's groupings) go down so many rabbit holes and come up with essentially no useful learning.


No useful learning? I've tuned many springers, and I learned more than a few things from this thread. Your statement is motivating to me. Someday I too may have such extensive knowledge that no useful learning exists for me. I'm on it.:)

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13 springers and a few pumpers.
2 lathes and lots of scrap metal.

Too soon old too late smart.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:42 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 149
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
ricksplace wrote:
It appears to me that your tuning efforts have produced an accurate gun.

"You have done well, grasshopper" (apologies to Kung Fu, the series)

This wasn’t really a target session, Rick. I’ve been doing some sweeping research of piston/spring combinations, before I get the new spring later today. I want to understand approximately what each of these scenarios might produce.

In the case of this last target, I had just done my second piston swap of the evening and it was primarily a Chrony session. I’m real happy with the performance of my kit, and myself. You gotta realize, I had only just set the scope in the mounts, no adjustment. This still seems a bit like magic, to me.

I never got a chance to shoot the Phantom after previous work, then I got the Optimus. It’s been a little busy on the ol’ FatMax.

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Stephen

Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO

Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO

SPA Wildfire600 .22 .495 fps, CenterPoint 4x32

Daisy Grizzly 840


Last edited by eSteve on Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:52 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:45 am 
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Posts: 149
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
YepYep wrote:
Have been following up this story...

Forgot to ask, I know you tried and put different power plants into the gun... How's the accuracy / grouping changed with that? Pretty sure like a lower power would make it less sensitive etc...

See my reply to Rick. So much power plant work, target shooting is peripheral, for now.

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Stephen

Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO

Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO

SPA Wildfire600 .22 .495 fps, CenterPoint 4x32

Daisy Grizzly 840


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 7:49 am 
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Posts: 149
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
ricksplace wrote:
No useful learning? I've tuned many springers, and I learned more than a few things from this thread.

Of course! Man, the learning curve for me has been so fast and steep. And it's a long road.

Rick, it takes about a second to see where some people have their head.

Cheers bud

_________________
Stephen

Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO

Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO

SPA Wildfire600 .22 .495 fps, CenterPoint 4x32

Daisy Grizzly 840


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 9:39 pm 
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Posts: 4092
Location: Edmonton
ricksplace wrote:
Edmonton<500 wrote:
I have never seen a post with a basic initial goal (improve a firearm's groupings) go down so many rabbit holes and come up with essentially no useful learning.


No useful learning? I've tuned many springers, and I learned more than a few things from this thread. Your statement is motivating to me. Someday I too may have such extensive knowledge that no useful learning exists for me. I'm on it.:)


Respect, Rick, but the final results of the discussion were not posted until after my post. Now, I'm sorry if I sounded elitist, or whatever, but the result shown below as the final results of the discussion, is a bit troublesome as an example of performance improvement.

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IMG_0360 copy.jpg
IMG_0360 copy.jpg [ 145.36 KiB | Viewed 208 times ]


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:29 pm 
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Location: Lower Mainland, BC
ricksplace wrote:
well, grasshopper


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IMG_0361 copy.JPG
IMG_0361 copy.JPG [ 163.19 KiB | Viewed 203 times ]

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Stephen

Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO

Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO

SPA Wildfire600 .22 .495 fps, CenterPoint 4x32

Daisy Grizzly 840
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 30, 2021 11:29 pm 
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Posts: 4092
Location: Edmonton
I'm sorry, Stephen (& Rick), I do not understand your "Karate Kid" response. In the first place, I can only respond to the evidence provided. This target would definitely be considered better than the target you provided after my first comment. But again, I'm sorry, this is not an example of accuracy under control; I doubt many would disagree with me.

As I said before, this thread has gone down so many rabbit holes to discover your issue, and it's obvious the issue is not solved. I believe it has already touched on the pellet issue, which was lost in another rabbit hole. My guess is that you have not yet mastered the hold consistency required for a springer - one that is perhaps shooting too hot. But that doesn't matter.

Point is, results show you're not done yet. How 'bout trying different variations of the proper hold for springers? How 'bout a pellet challenge? Have you made sure all the screws on your airgun are tight? With a little more detailed information, I'm sure the members could continue following your clues to a real solution. Start another thread on pellets? Why not apply that experiment to this issue's thread?


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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 8:07 am 
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Posts: 647
Location: Thunder Bay
Hey Edmonton<500. No offense taken! Kung Fu was a TV series starring the late David Carradine. His old, blind sensei often said to him as he was learning, "you are doing well, grasshopper". My experience with entry level springers has taught me that they often have serious issues that, unaddressed, will preclude any form of consistent accuracy. These issues need to be sussed out and addressed prior to any attempts at finding consistent accuracy. The number of possible issues are many, as evidenced by the many " rabbit holes" our learned members identified. (It's no wonder shooters get fed up with springers and move to PCPs) The few examples I showed with my own WF600 outlined a few of the steps I took prior to attempting consistent accuracy. I could have tried accuracy testing with the gun out of the box, but based on my experience with my other two B3s, I figured I'd just be wasting pellets and increasing my stress levels. Who would have thought Crosman pointed pellets would shoot well? I would not have discovered that without doing the work first. Now that I have a few tight groups with that gun, I know it can be "tack driver" accurate with the right pellet. I also know my own skill level shooting from the bench, which is why I discounted the flyer in that tight group.:)
In my opinion, the groups posted by Stephen show a rapid improvement from the work he has done on his guns. A cursory look at his targets tends to corroborate your opinion of awful groups, but I see a different picture. Here is someone who is learning how to tune a springer at the same time he's learning to shoot a springer from the bench. While there are a lot of flyers there are some tight groups in there. That tells me the general accuracy of the gun is improving. Given that he's getting some good groups (see latest targets #1&3) I have no doubt he'll soon be getting consistent tight groups with good pellets.

Perhaps you could explain to us how you have tuned your springer(s), and some of your springer targets that show "accuracy under control" at similar ranges identified in the threads.

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13 springers and a few pumpers.
2 lathes and lots of scrap metal.

Too soon old too late smart.


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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 12:44 pm 
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Location: GTA, ON
I think our Mr.Stephen got two rifles at almost the same time to work on, and the best part is the parts are interchangeable ~ so I expect this will be a long story to follow as plus the extra new parts, so many interesting stuff and combinations Stephen needs to follow and try... However I pretty sure the gentleman will summarize them up and post to share at the end and in the process~

And IMO at 17m the #1 target posted this time is very accurate! A good score in the match is like that~

At the moment, if we focus at moding on rifle first, I think we can forget the holds first, and find a good sand bag or the roller rest we have posted here before...

_________________
AA ProSport 177 walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine
Camo Chaser long barrel carbine
PP700SA long barrel carbine


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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 1:57 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 149
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
YepYep wrote:
Stephen got two rifles at almost the same time to work on, and the best part is the parts are interchangeable ~ so I expect this will be a long story to follow as plus the extra new parts, so many interesting stuff and combinations

However I pretty sure the gentleman will summarize them up and post to share at the end and in the process~

And IMO at 17m the #1 target posted this time is very accurate! A good score in the match is like that~

At the moment, if we focus at moding on rifle first, I think we can forget the holds first, and find a good sand bag or the roller rest we have posted here before...

Yep, that’s what happened: two rifles, watch me go!

I may be sharing too much, I may stop.

Yes, see my funky rest, below.

Nothing too fancy going on here. I’m working the low end pretty hard, as ever. But as has been noted, that’s where the fun is, if fun is your thing. I’ve got my eye on a shweesh bench rest stand from Hawke that doesn’t cost the earth, I may be shelling out for that sometime.

Cheers, man.


Attachments:
IMG_0363 copy.JPG
IMG_0363 copy.JPG [ 112.37 KiB | Viewed 192 times ]

_________________
Stephen

Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO

Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO

SPA Wildfire600 .22 .495 fps, CenterPoint 4x32

Daisy Grizzly 840
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PostPosted: Sat May 01, 2021 7:00 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 7719
Location: P.G. B.C.
Stephen - at what range (yards/meters) are you shooting?
Your last targets on the left side are very promising, compared to the others
shot previously.

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Daryl


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PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 3:00 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 149
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
Daryl wrote:
Stephen - at what range (yards/meters) are you shooting?

Your last targets on the left side are very promising, compared to the others shot previously.

17m

Thanks. Yes, the lower 2 on the right I was sighting in the CentrePoint scope. Again. Pretty fun.

_________________
Stephen

Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO

Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO

SPA Wildfire600 .22 .495 fps, CenterPoint 4x32

Daisy Grizzly 840


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PostPosted: Sun May 02, 2021 9:54 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 7719
Location: P.G. B.C.
At 17 meters, that bottom left target is not bad for a high powered less expensive air rifle.
Looks like you have it under control if you repeat EVERYTHING you did. Looks like 3/8", maybe 4/10".

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Daryl


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