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PostPosted: Mon May 03, 2021 7:47 am 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 1:08 am
Posts: 649
Location: Thunder Bay
YepYep wrote:
I think our Mr.Stephen got two rifles at almost the same time to work on, and the best part is the parts are interchangeable ~ so I expect this will be a long story to follow as plus the extra new parts, so many interesting stuff and combinations Stephen needs to follow and try... However I pretty sure the gentleman will summarize them up and post to share at the end and in the process~

And IMO at 17m the #1 target posted this time is very accurate! A good score in the match is like that~

At the moment, if we focus at moding on rifle first, I think we can forget the holds first, and find a good sand bag or the roller rest we have posted here before...


Well said, sir.
I'm impressed with the way members (well, most members) have made positive suggestions to help Stephen. Killercrow even took his Phantom apart to help illustrate things. I posted some horrible groups from a B3 I was modding to show even us old sages struggle with the same issues. I hope Stephen continues to update us with his progress.

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13 springers and a few pumpers.
2 lathes and lots of scrap metal.

Too soon old too late smart.


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PostPosted: Fri May 07, 2021 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 153
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
ricksplace wrote:
I use one piece mounts with a stop pin. They don't move, ever. You don't mention what type of scope mounts you are using. At minimum, four screw mounts are required. (Four screws holding down each cap, two screws holding each ring to the dovetail). The one piece mount has almost 4x the gripping surface on the dovetail, and four screws on each cap.
Sheesh, it’s funny looking back at these posts from just a couple weeks ago. So much water under the frickin’ air rifle bridge.

Anyway, I’ve had this CenterPoint one-piece mount from Crosman, waiting for install, the time came. (It’s landed on the Optimus, for the scope shuffle to come. Still getting by with the CenterPoint 4x32, for now) The mount looks quite good, I think. It has the snappy two pairs of screws in each cap. That’s 2 more pairs than the lesser 2-piece mounts I was using. That’s a lot of screws to take the scope on and off. I like doing spring, and piston, swaps. I don’t want to take off the scope anymore. I’m modifying my Spring Compressor.

Oh, and I opened up the rifle and took out the spring, and made sure the stop screw for the scope mount was just flush in the tube. Ha!

Thanks Rick


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_________________
Stephen

Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO

Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO

SPA Wildfire600 .22 .495 fps, CenterPoint 4x32

Daisy Grizzly 840
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 04, 2021 11:37 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 153
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
I'm not a competition shooter, I'm a hack who's been at it for four months.

I’ve been working on the other rifles, then the time came to shoot the Phantom again. It suddenly started shooting very well, the first two targets are from the same page. The next evening I shot the others. 60% inside 1 inch at 17m. This Phantom wants to stack them. I just have to let it.

I started printing to the larger page and added 2 more targets.


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mon 31 may 2021.JPG
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_________________
Stephen

Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO

Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO

SPA Wildfire600 .22 .495 fps, CenterPoint 4x32

Daisy Grizzly 840
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:31 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 3307
Location: GTA, ON
The latest result looks promising ~

Can you estimate how did you shoot those targets? Looks the fliers were human error not the gun?

When the gun is tuned well, it's much easier to improve the skill and technique. Keep practicing and you will just shoot better and better~

When I shoot my HW45 pistol, that beast is very 'springer'. You need to follow all techniques on shooting a springer especially the holds to shoot it well. But you can tell or it tells you that you did well or made mistake in the shot...

Do you have this kind of feeling when shooting this Phantom? You don't need to check the target, just after you pull the trigger, you will know instantly you will hit or miss that shot...

Picture is that beast... Image

_________________
AA ProSport 177 walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine
Camo Chaser long barrel carbine
PP700SA long barrel carbine


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:05 am 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 1:08 am
Posts: 649
Location: Thunder Bay
Those groups show great potential. I think you use the same Caldwell shooting bags as I do. My phantom will not shoot consistently from that large front bag, due to the shape of the forend. My groups look like yours with a bunch of shots touching and a bunch of flyers. I blamed myself for them until I tried a different method of a rest. My guns with a flat forearm slide easily on that front bag, and shoot nice tight groups, except when I screw up. My two Phantoms (177 & 22) will not group on that front bag. My 177 phantom shoots under moa, (Todd Cooper shot a .172" 5 shot group with it at 20 meters) so I know it's not the gun. I tried using the smaller rear bag as a front bag, with my hand between the bag and the forearm, and no rear bag, just light shoulder contact. Immediate improvement. My 22 gave me a ragged hole 5 shot group (with cphp yet!!). I finally figured out that if I could shoot tight groups with the WF600, and my other rifles with a flat forend, the "Phantom flyers" were not due to my marksmanship, but due to a mismatch between the forearm shape and my style of shooting rest.
I have an old steel adjustable front rest from my bench rest days that I'll have to press back into service with a small bag to fit in the arc of the phantom forend. Until then, I'll just shoot my guns that have a flat forend.

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13 springers and a few pumpers.
2 lathes and lots of scrap metal.

Too soon old too late smart.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:29 am 
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Location: GTA, ON
Well! That's interesting and a nice input ~

A quick question, if using the same large bag, but not just lay the gun on it, as you mentioned later, use you palm in between the rifle and the bag to support the forearm of the rifle stock... How would it shoot then?

Just curious as it's not my case But a little similar.... because I don't have such a long range in the basement, so I have to squeeze all the distance so I don't use a shooting table and bags, but just sit on a chair reversely and put a bath towel or winter coat on the chair back as the cushion, then I always use my palm in between the stock forearm and the chair back as that gives better control to keep the gun in the same place and direction each time and easier to aim...

_________________
AA ProSport 177 walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine
Camo Chaser long barrel carbine
PP700SA long barrel carbine


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:40 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 153
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
YepYep wrote:
When the gun is tuned well, it's much easier to improve the skill and technique. Keep practicing

You need to follow all techniques on shooting a springer especially the holds to shoot it well. But you can tell or it tells you that you did well or made mistake in the shot...

Do you have this kind of feeling when shooting this Phantom? You don't need to check the target, just after you pull the trigger, you will know instantly you will hit or miss that shot...

Picture is that beast...
Ok, that is a great photo. The toys are cool but that is a great cat. It looks like a Bobcat. The short tail, the paint job. I have Bobcat in my yard, I've seen them. Your cat is cool. Looks like an animal.

Yes, the hold. I've been listening to you guys on here. I feel it. Sometimes I understand it and shoot well but the next day it's elusive again. It's different on the different rifles. We'll see

_________________
Stephen

Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO

Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO

SPA Wildfire600 .22 .495 fps, CenterPoint 4x32

Daisy Grizzly 840


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 9:57 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 153
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
ricksplace wrote:
I think you use the same Caldwell shooting bags as I do.

I finally figured out that if I could shoot tight groups with the WF600, and my other rifles with a flat forend,
Yeah, my bench rest is a weak link. The bags are a slightly cheesey Amazon free shipping purchase, my first go. I'm going to upgrade. I need to find better fill for them too. I need to build a higher rest, that would help, it's coming.

_________________
Stephen

Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO

Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO

SPA Wildfire600 .22 .495 fps, CenterPoint 4x32

Daisy Grizzly 840


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 10:12 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 3307
Location: GTA, ON
eSteve wrote:
YepYep wrote:
Picture is that beast...
Ok, that is a great photo. The toys are cool but that is a great cat. It looks like a Bobcat. The short tail, the paint job. I have Bobcat in my yard, I've seen them. Your cat is cool. Looks like an animal.


[emoji38] thanks for the good words for that fat lazy lady who couldn't catch a fly successfully ~

But did you miss the pistol laying around? Why call it a beast (actually every owner calls the HW45 a Beast...), you know it just shoots at the similar power level near the other gun on the picture too? That's a detuned sub 500 HW35 in 22 cal... And the beast shoots over 400fps in 22cal... Of course, springer....

_________________
AA ProSport 177 walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine
Camo Chaser long barrel carbine
PP700SA long barrel carbine


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 11:13 am 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 1:08 am
Posts: 649
Location: Thunder Bay
Yepyep -I tried my hand on top of the bag between the bag and gun. It improved the group size, but the forend still touched the bag in spots causing flyers, and I just couldn't get comfortable. But the improvement in groups led me to try different ideas. I even tried a paint roller. That was worse. My two phantoms (one is actually a Fury) are the only two guns I have with that stock style, so I'm happy to shoot my other guns from the bench. Most of my airgun shooting has been offhand, leaning on a deck railing or tree or whatever. Crabapples and empty shotgun shells took a beating. It's been a while since I shot paper for anything other than sighting in. It's been fun to shoot from the bench again.

_________________
13 springers and a few pumpers.
2 lathes and lots of scrap metal.

Too soon old too late smart.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 12:08 pm 
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Posts: 3307
Location: GTA, ON
Yep! Got your idea~ that bag just entirely big all around~ right? [emoji38]

Agreed that, and actually like I use the back of the chair as the support, adding a folded bath towel, it's actually still thin and not bigger than my hand, the forearm of the rifle stock have no chance to touch anything other than my open palm... Think that is actually like you use the small bag...

_________________
AA ProSport 177 walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine
Camo Chaser long barrel carbine
PP700SA long barrel carbine


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 2:17 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 1:08 am
Posts: 649
Location: Thunder Bay
Yepyep -you nailed it. That's it exactly.
That Caldwell front bag is almost the same size as a concrete block.
My flat bottom springers and my powder burners love it.

_________________
13 springers and a few pumpers.
2 lathes and lots of scrap metal.

Too soon old too late smart.


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:22 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 153
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
ricksplace wrote:
It's been fun to shoot from the bench
Ok. It was the WF600 but we’re talking about hold, rests and accuracy.

I was having coffee so went to take a few shots. I was shooting consistently low and right, that I thought I should adjust the scope. But I knew somehow that it was at least partly myself and my trigger pull that were dragging it down there. And I was going to ask you guys about it.

And I had a crazy idea. When I drilled for the stop pin, I had compressed the trigger spring a bit. It’s become a hair trigger. It’s mostly ok, I’m not used to it, I haven’t done screw modifications on the Crosmen. So I set the rifle in the bags and aimed carefully, so that I could keep my hands off and just pull the trigger. I was trying to have a minimum of input. That hair trigger released . . . BAM! Right in the half! I took a 2nd shot. Not a bull, but closer than my regular shots! A 3rd shot, not a bull, but closer again.

You can see it in the photo. The low and right, the bull and the two closer shots. Hilarious!

Now what does all this research tell me? Oh, man. This is a funny business.


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_________________
Stephen

Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO

Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO

SPA Wildfire600 .22 .495 fps, CenterPoint 4x32

Daisy Grizzly 840
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 6:49 pm 
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Location: GTA, ON
Hmm, to be honest, in fact it's hard to tell what happened from other ppl's mouth and you have to keep trying and figure out what happened by yourself....

And for your coffee shots, I might introduce a new word to you if you didn't hear it before.

Usually we pick up a gun, the first a few shots will not be good shots because just like you cold started your car in the morning, it needs a little time to get back to the good working order. In an air gun, the first a few shots may be shooting higher or lower, anyway, won't be same as the 10th/20th shot afterwards....

For a co2 gun or PCP, I would just dry firing it a few times then start loading and shooting... But you can't dry fire a springer, so you just load it and shoot it causally and don't bother hitting the bull or not... We call that 'sighter's... However, you can see if your scope still keeping zero, right?

For your another question, I would give the scope a few clicks to fine tune the zero... if you just get used to pull the gun to the lower right, and if you can amend it by adjusting the scope, why go the hard way to make yourself not shooting comfortably?

Of course before doing so, just make sure you pull the gun consistently... If you anyway need to modify your shooting habit, there's not a problem at all to improve one more thing on the list~

Just my 2 cents~ :drinkers:

_________________
AA ProSport 177 walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine
Camo Chaser long barrel carbine
PP700SA long barrel carbine


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PostPosted: Sat Jun 05, 2021 8:13 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 153
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
YepYep wrote:
eSteve wrote:
YepYep wrote:
Picture is that beast...
Ok, that is a great photo. The toys are cool but that is a great cat. It looks like a Bobcat. The short tail, the paint job. I have Bobcat in my yard, I've seen them. Your cat is cool. Looks like an animal.


[emoji38] thanks for the good words for that fat lazy lady who couldn't catch a fly successfully ~

But did you miss the pistol laying around? Why call it a beast (actually every owner calls the HW45 a Beast...), you know it just shoots at the similar power level near the other gun on the picture too? That's a detuned sub 500 HW35 in 22 cal... And the beast shoots over 400fps in 22cal... Of course, springer....
Yes, the Beast. I’ve never shot a handgun, I can’t imagine rifle power there.

And yes, Bobcat! Look! Like your cat. They’re quite timid, not seen too much. Have bigger paws


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_________________
Stephen

Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO

Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO

SPA Wildfire600 .22 .495 fps, CenterPoint 4x32

Daisy Grizzly 840
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