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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 6:07 am 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 1:08 am
Posts: 690
Location: Thunder Bay
Hi Steve.
I will machine a few steel spacers for you to take the place of your washers. Let me know the inside and outside diameters and a few thicknesses you would like. I'll include them with the machined parts for your WF600 when I ship them to you.

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13 springers and a few pumpers and pistols.
2 lathes and lots of scrap metal.

Too soon old too late smart.


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 7:35 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 3631
Location: GTA, ON
Morning Steve~

Looks your guns get better plus you also get used to these rifles~ Hope you would do even better with the incoming new pellets~

Regarding the 'flight path', heavier pellets, straight flight... You can figure out a better answer with the Chairgun App by inputting different parameters and it will calculate out the info you need.

The graphics it provides gives me a very direct view on how the POI changes at every distance...

On the below 3 screen shots, one is for the basic setting to shoot the JSB domed Express 7.9g pellet with 500fps muzzle speed, scope zeroed at 10 yards.

Graphic showed after pellet hit the first zero at 10 yards, it will keep climbing up and then shooting down to the 2nd zero at about 22yards. But in between 10 to 22 yards, it's actually fly straight with only less than 1/4 inch changes in flight height. That's means if no side wind drift, it would just hit any bulleye in the path...

Then I change the muzzle speed from 500 to 800fps which my 12fpe PAL rifle shoots around that range... And the POI changes much aggressively and reach the 2nd zero at around 50 yards. And in between 10 to 20 yards, the fly height changes about an inch upper... And it's keep climbing untill around 30 yards...

It will be another story if the first zero set to 25 yards to suit the power of the gun.
ImageImageImage

_________________
CZ200s Color Laminated tuned to 10fpe
AA ProSport 177 Walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 70 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 12:59 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 201
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
ricksplace wrote:
Hi Steve.
I will machine a few steel spacers for you to take the place of your washers. Let me know the inside and outside diameters and a few thicknesses you would like. I'll include them with the machined parts for your WF600 when I ship them to you.

Well, that would be crazy cool! I’m still not sure I can really use additional or reduced preload but it would be great to make it work, so thank you.

I would make them the same dimensions as the narrow (front) end of the Rear Spring Guide, the big stepped one. I’ve measured:

.725 “ outside

.48 “ inside

I would use two thicknesses, one of .25 “ and one of .125 “

I have one of these large guides as spare now. I got it specifically to cut up and reduce preload, as I’ve read here in the forum. But I’ve looked at it and measured it, I’m not sure it’s something I would do. I figure this guide has maybe four or five jobs, one of them is to be there for the end of the piston to slide over and be aligned, and keep the whole spring inside the piston at full cock.

I’m still thinking of cutting it but it would be subtle, just that 1/4 or 3/16. I’m not sure it’s worth it. It would be for a small reduction in power/velocity, after piston/spring and pellet selection. And use the little off-cut for increase.

But curious and very interesting. Yeah

_________________
Stephen

Cometa Fusion .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO
Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Ohhunt 3-9x32 AO IR
Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO
SPA WF600 .22 495 fps


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 1:06 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 201
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
YepYep wrote:
Regarding the 'flight path', heavier pellets, straight flight... You can figure out a better answer with the Chairgun App by inputting different parameters and it will calculate out the info you need.
Wow. That's quite a thing. I might start using ChairGun if I take it outside

_________________
Stephen

Cometa Fusion .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO
Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Ohhunt 3-9x32 AO IR
Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO
SPA WF600 .22 495 fps


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 6:21 pm 
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Joined: Mon May 26, 2014 1:08 am
Posts: 690
Location: Thunder Bay
Hi Steve.

Don't cut your spacer. I'll make the large back piece and a few spacers at the diameters you specified to mix and match for the preload you want. I made the same thing for Todd Cooper when he was tuning his two optimus'.

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13 springers and a few pumpers and pistols.
2 lathes and lots of scrap metal.

Too soon old too late smart.


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PostPosted: Sun May 16, 2021 6:29 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 7938
Location: P.G. B.C.
eSteve wrote:
YepYep wrote:
Regarding the 'flight path', heavier pellets, straight flight... You can figure out a better answer with the Chairgun App by inputting different parameters and it will calculate out the info you need.
Wow. That's quite a thing. I might start using ChairGun if I take it outside


Chairgun can be quite handy, especially for figuring drop and "kill zone" parameters for pesting.
Pick the pellet and it will automatically put in the BC. You select the velocity and zero ranges as well as the height above the bore centerline
for the centre of the scope. Manipulating the zero range will give you the best-case scenario for a given pellet/rifle performance. Once you have
the parameters you want, all you have to do it so sight for the range, then test it out. You can make a chart for your mill dot & 1/2 mill dot or MOA
zeros - whatever the scope displays.
Use of a printer, comes in handy for printing charts.

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Best Wishes
Daryl


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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 2:49 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 201
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
This ain't exactly chair gun, but it's something


Attachments:
IMG_0459 copy.JPG
IMG_0459 copy.JPG [ 161.44 KiB | Viewed 208 times ]

_________________
Stephen

Cometa Fusion .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO
Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Ohhunt 3-9x32 AO IR
Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO
SPA WF600 .22 495 fps
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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 3:21 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 3631
Location: GTA, ON
More details regarding from #1 to #6?

Why the first 5 groups opened so widely? I almost want to recommend maybe should start at 10m and then move the target farther if needed... But then I see the #6...

_________________
CZ200s Color Laminated tuned to 10fpe
AA ProSport 177 Walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 70 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine


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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 5:58 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 7938
Location: P.G. B.C.
For that range, #6 is wonderful.
#1 is also pretty good. Both the gun and you show promise.
Aren't springers fun!!

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Daryl


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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 7:11 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 201
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
YepYep wrote:
More details regarding from #1 to #6?

Why the first 5 groups opened so widely?
Well, I’ve just got a new rifle a couple days ago. There’s been a scope mount shuffle, and some other components. It seems I have to sight in scopes a lot.

I had just moved one of the scope mounts on this rifle, and moved the scope back in the mounts, to get it closer to my eye. There are shims involved. I wasn’t exactly starting from zero but it was a ways off. The first three shots were to make sure I was on the same page. And that’s what you’re seeing here. I was shooting a bit quick, making adjustments to the windage and elevation, not too much not too little, letting it ride. I find it takes about 20 shots, even if I’m in the neighbourhood and it goes well, to kind of get it sorted. And that’s what you’re seeing. It’s incredible that it even happens.

_________________
Stephen

Cometa Fusion .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO
Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Ohhunt 3-9x32 AO IR
Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO
SPA WF600 .22 495 fps


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PostPosted: Mon May 24, 2021 7:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 3631
Location: GTA, ON
These are on the new better pellets right?

Did the JSBs make any better? ;)
(I remember the new pellets that came to you were JSB, right?)

_________________
CZ200s Color Laminated tuned to 10fpe
AA ProSport 177 Walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 70 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine


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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 11:12 am 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 7938
Location: P.G. B.C.
Tapping the side of the scope after each turret movement, will settle the crosshairs into their "new" location better than the jarring
recoil of 'just' shooting. Oft times, after an adjustment, the next pellet or two will not show the change in zero. Tapping the side of the scope
on the parallax adjustment knob, or just the scope tube itself, with the rubber handle of a screw driver is all that is needed. tap, tap, tap.
Doesn't have to be hard. I think that could be the reason for some of the "enlargement" of the various "sighting in" groups.

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Daryl


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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 12:18 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 201
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
YepYep wrote:
These are on the new better pellets right?

Did the JSBs make any better? ;)
(I remember the new pellets that came to you were JSB, right?)
Haven’t had a chance to find out yet, that’s all I’ve shot. I like ‘em tho, I like how they fit in the barrel . . . 4.52mm!

_________________
Stephen

Cometa Fusion .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO
Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Ohhunt 3-9x32 AO IR
Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO
SPA WF600 .22 495 fps


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PostPosted: Tue May 25, 2021 12:23 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 201
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
Daryl wrote:
Tapping the side of the scope after each turret movement, will settle the crosshairs into their "new" location better than the jarring recoil of 'just' shooting.

I think that could be the reason for some of the "enlargement" of the various "sighting in" groups.
Yes, I’ve embraced the tapping technique.

Those open groups are just me going quick and light with the zeroing, no need to really commit until things get a bit closer.

_________________
Stephen

Cometa Fusion .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO
Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Ohhunt 3-9x32 AO IR
Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO
SPA WF600 .22 495 fps


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PostPosted: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:32 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 201
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
ricksplace wrote:
Hi Steve.
I will machine a few steel spacers for you to take the place of your washers. Let me know the inside and outside diameters and a few thicknesses you would like. I'll include them with the machined parts for your WF600 when I ship them to you.
Ok, I’ve been exploring these rifles, trying to understand what makes them shoot well. It’s a mystery, a long road.

Fellow forum member Rick made more than a few spacers for me. It’s a whole array of adjustability.

My Optimus .177 seems like a straight shooter but is delicate to hold. So I thought I’d try some of Rick’s goodies in it and see what it would do. He had made me a 3-piece spacer to replace the large, stepped spacer.

I left out the front part and used a thin thrust washer in it’s place. This reduced preload by .325”. Velocity was reduced by 40 fps. Cool! I didn’t notice any change in how the Optimus was shooting, it was still quite delicate.

I was doing this work right after I had made a little breakthrough in shooting accuracy. My targets have got suddenly much better this week. With all of the work I’ve been doing, the spring and piston swaps, etc., it feels like I’m starting to understand these rifles. Pellets have started to stack.

Now I know all you guys shoot groups the size of a pin, I’m not like that. So I’m pretty excited with my targets, as ever.

I find that my first shots in the morning are often quite good. I wasn’t too thrilled with my first target today. I shot another. I was so stoked I pushed the last shot. The third target was even better. I shot the two singles after work.

I’m shooting about 65% of shots inside of 1 inch now, at 17m. I’ve got as high as 80%. This is over 5 targets or something, not just one.

Anyway, I want to thank you guys for trying to explain how to shoot to me. It might be working.


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_________________
Stephen

Cometa Fusion .177 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO
Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Ohhunt 3-9x32 AO IR
Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 4x32 AO
SPA WF600 .22 495 fps
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