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 Post subject: Re: Optimus Prime
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 10:33 am 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 201
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
TCooper wrote:
I use the brass screw and electric drill trick for crowning. The first step is with valve grinding compound. Then I use a blend of jeweler's rouge and JB Bore Paste to get a nice polish. Use a high power magnifying glass (loop) to inspect the crown for burrs and a crisp transition to the rifling.

I hope Crosman continues selling with the Optimus rifle as it is. I noticed on their American web site that most of their break-barrel rifles now have a long plastic barrel sleeve. I'm guessing they went the Gamo route and use a soda straw barrel inside the bulky plastic.

The Optimus/Fury/Phantom is a nice design and can stay great if Crosman puts some pressure on the Chinese manufacturer to put more effort into getting consistent bores. Sometimes you get a nice bore that drives tacks and other times it has tight and loose spots throughout the length. The common tight spot in front of the breech block can kill good accuracy. I would rather see them epoxy the barrel in the block than drive it in tight so it constricts the bore. I have an one excellent Optimus barrel that can nail small cans at 75 yards. I didn't have to do anything to it. I have two others that needed lots of work because of constrictions. They shoot fine now but not quite as well as the good barrel.

I like the Optimus because it can be made to shoot well, parts are cheap, the trigger can easily be made very acceptable, and the rifle price is reasonable. The sights suck but a scope fixes that.
I’d like to try the crowning work sometime and I’m curious about this constricted bore. I’ve done a fair bit of similar turning to this point, I suppose some work on the barrel is next. And you push pellets through to check? I can do that.

I was a bit frustrated with the Phantom and I was wondering what I should do next. And I saw cool Cometa springers on Canadian Air Collector, so I ordered one. And then I just tried a little harder with the Phantom and, sure enough, it started grouping better closer to the bull.

And the Fusion arrived, I think it’s pretty good, I haven’t taken it apart yet. If you’re interested, it looks like there’s at least several available there, good price.

I had a look where the barrel meets the breech on it, it looks as though it’s been epoxied.

_________________
Stephen

Cometa Fusion .177 495 fps, Hawke Airmax 3-9x40
Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Ohhunt 3-9x32 AO IR
Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO
SPA WF600 .22 495 fps


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 Post subject: Re: Optimus Prime
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:12 am 
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:25 am
Posts: 3840
Location: Ontario, Canada
eSteve wrote:
TCooper wrote:
I use the brass screw and electric drill trick for crowning. The first step is with valve grinding compound. Then I use a blend of jeweler's rouge and JB Bore Paste to get a nice polish. Use a high power magnifying glass (loop) to inspect the crown for burrs and a crisp transition to the rifling.

I hope Crosman continues selling with the Optimus rifle as it is. I noticed on their American web site that most of their break-barrel rifles now have a long plastic barrel sleeve. I'm guessing they went the Gamo route and use a soda straw barrel inside the bulky plastic.

The Optimus/Fury/Phantom is a nice design and can stay great if Crosman puts some pressure on the Chinese manufacturer to put more effort into getting consistent bores. Sometimes you get a nice bore that drives tacks and other times it has tight and loose spots throughout the length. The common tight spot in front of the breech block can kill good accuracy. I would rather see them epoxy the barrel in the block than drive it in tight so it constricts the bore. I have an one excellent Optimus barrel that can nail small cans at 75 yards. I didn't have to do anything to it. I have two others that needed lots of work because of constrictions. They shoot fine now but not quite as well as the good barrel.

I like the Optimus because it can be made to shoot well, parts are cheap, the trigger can easily be made very acceptable, and the rifle price is reasonable. The sights suck but a scope fixes that.
I’d like to try the crowning work sometime and I’m curious about this constricted bore. I’ve done a fair bit of similar turning to this point, I suppose some work on the barrel is next. And you push pellets through to check? I can do that.

I was a bit frustrated with the Phantom and I was wondering what I should do next. And I saw cool Cometa springers on Canadian Air Collector, so I ordered one. And then I just tried a little harder with the Phantom and, sure enough, it started grouping better closer to the bull.

And the Fusion arrived, I think it’s pretty good, I haven’t taken it apart yet. If you’re interested, it looks like there’s at least several available there, good price.

I had a look where the barrel meets the breech on it, it looks as though it’s been epoxied.


To check for constrictions I just push pellets through the bore from breech to muzzle. Use a cleaning rod and go slow. With a bad bore you will feel areas where the pellet has very little resistance. Hopefully it gets tight at the muzzle.

Also check your hinge tightness on the Phantom. I usually change the washers to steel and lube them up well with moly paste. I can't remember the size but I find them at Home Depot in the bulk bins. I carefully select a couple of good pairs. Thicknesses vary with the cheap washers so find a matched pair. Usually I end up sanding down the thickness a bit and polishing them well. You can spin them on a drill and file then down if they are slightly too wide (use a bolt & nut). Also check your hinge wedge. Sometimes I install a heavier wedge spring. Lube it well with moly paste.


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 Post subject: Re: Optimus Prime
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 11:20 am 
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Location: GTA, ON
A quick question....

When you found the barrel is not so good (like loose resistance, tight spots /loose spots etc...) Is there any way to make it better?! Or just buy another one and try the luck again?

_________________
CZ200s Color Laminated tuned to 10fpe
AA ProSport 177 Walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 70 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine


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 Post subject: Re: Optimus Prime
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:25 am
Posts: 3840
Location: Ontario, Canada
YepYep wrote:
A quick question....

When you found the barrel is not so good (like loose resistance, tight spots /loose spots etc...) Is there any way to make it better?! Or just buy another one and try the luck again?


I sanded the bore on my bad Optimus and it greatly improved accuracy. It will likely be a bit finicky for pellet preference but I found a couple that it likes. The barrel was so bad that I had nothing to loose if the plan failed.

post513230.html?hilit=barrel%20sanding#p513230


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 Post subject: Re: Optimus Prime
PostPosted: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:35 pm 
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Location: GTA, ON
A good idea!!
I got everything, included a barrel I want to improved.... :(
Will give it a try~ thanks Todd ~

_________________
CZ200s Color Laminated tuned to 10fpe
AA ProSport 177 Walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 70 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine


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 Post subject: Re: Optimus Prime
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:28 pm 
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I was out shooting for a bit today with the Canadian Optimus that had the terrible barrel. This rifle bore was sanded quite a bit to remove the constrictions (carefully). It shot terrible before the work. It's now tuned to around 625fps. Here is a group that I shot today using a front bag on a bench that was not very solid. I think the rifle will do a bit better with a steadier rest.


Attachments:
Optimus 600 002b.jpg
Optimus 600 002b.jpg [ 203.69 KiB | Viewed 158 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Optimus Prime
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:07 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 201
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
No question there, Todd. That is tight. I am very looking forward to checking the barrel on my Phantom, but the Fusion is on the spring compressor now. First time opening it.

Also, I’m inspired by your long, offhand shooting. I’ve started shooting from a low seated position, off my knee. No rest or anything. It’s good, gonna take some work tho.

I found an old post that said the Fusion can share Crosman springs. Stoked.

_________________
Stephen

Cometa Fusion .177 495 fps, Hawke Airmax 3-9x40
Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Ohhunt 3-9x32 AO IR
Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO
SPA WF600 .22 495 fps


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 Post subject: Re: Optimus Prime
PostPosted: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:19 pm 
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Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:04 am
Posts: 1153
TCooper wrote:
I was out shooting for a bit today with the Canadian Optimus that had the terrible barrel. This rifle bore was sanded quite a bit to remove the constrictions (carefully). It shot terrible before the work. It's now tuned to around 625fps. Here is a group that I shot today using a front bag on a bench that was not very solid. I think the rifle will do a bit better with a steadier rest.


There are pcp's that will have to watch their back when you are around shooting that springer. Well done.

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 Post subject: Re: Optimus Prime
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 10:30 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 201
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
Thanks guys for all the information about crowning and smoothing rifling. My Phantom may be a “prime” candidate for that work. Through all my recent work, this rifling has remained in my thoughts.

In fact, even with a new rifle, the work is always in context of the Crosmen.

But yeah, a couple weeks ago I put them aside to work on the Fusion. On Saturday night, after I did the lube and tune I picked up the Optimus. I was amazed how hard it was to pull the trigger! It had been the softest one before I got the Fusion. But even after a couple weeks it shot well, compared to the others. I only had time for a few shots and change the page. On Sunday morning, I picked up the Optimus again. I shot those targets on the left. All wadcutters, 3 different brands, different weights. I wasn’t belabouring it but you can see it was easy. Then I picked up the Fusion, targets on the right. Same 3 wadcutters. I shot those lower 2 targets with 2 different domes. I’ve been finding that the Fusion targets look a bit like my Phantom targets, their arrangement. But what really struck me were the holes. I didn’t like the holes. The Optimus holes were cut, the Phantom and Fusion not so much. The Fusion is .177 too, same pellets. I couldn’t stop thinking about it. What was it about those trajectories? Was it the rifling? Did I need to do the crowning?

Like I said, even with a new rifle, it’s always in the context of the Crosmen. When I’m shooting the Fusion, struggling with my rests, trying to figure a hold, I’m always thinking of the Crosmen.


Attachments:
IMG_0570 copy.JPG
IMG_0570 copy.JPG [ 134.35 KiB | Viewed 133 times ]

_________________
Stephen

Cometa Fusion .177 495 fps, Hawke Airmax 3-9x40
Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Ohhunt 3-9x32 AO IR
Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO
SPA WF600 .22 495 fps
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 Post subject: Re: Optimus Prime
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:32 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 3614
Location: GTA, ON
Hmm... I can see that~ the wadcutter should really cut nice holes like the targets on the left...

Domed pellet may make those holes on the lower right targets, but on the upper right, I am thinking the pellet looks not flying straight but rolling (not spinning) in the air and hit the paper?

You can always check the crowning with a Qtip to see if there's burrs or something else would affect the pellet flying out from the muzzle...

_________________
CZ200s Color Laminated tuned to 10fpe
AA ProSport 177 Walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 70 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine


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 Post subject: Re: Optimus Prime
PostPosted: Wed Aug 11, 2021 11:34 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 3614
Location: GTA, ON
And maybe you can try to shoot a 2x4 wood piece which you can see the pellet going into the wood straightly or on its side...

_________________
CZ200s Color Laminated tuned to 10fpe
AA ProSport 177 Walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 70 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine


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 Post subject: Re: Optimus Prime
PostPosted: Thu Aug 12, 2021 6:52 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 201
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
YepYep wrote:
the wadcutter should really cut nice holes like the targets on the left...
Thanks Yep. I thought of something else. I'll tell you later

_________________
Stephen

Cometa Fusion .177 495 fps, Hawke Airmax 3-9x40
Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Ohhunt 3-9x32 AO IR
Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO
SPA WF600 .22 495 fps


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 Post subject: Re: Optimus Prime
PostPosted: Sat Aug 14, 2021 5:28 pm 
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I had the Optimus Prime out for some exercise this afternoon and it was shooting very prime today. The day was a bit windy but I tried to shoot during the calmer times. I got caught by the wind on a few shots but it shouldn't drop the average by much. I shot a bunch of targets trying out different hold positions and shoulder touching or not. The attached 10 targets are all with no shoulder pressure from a benchrest at 50 yards. I got lazy and used thumb tacks as aiming spots on the bottom two targets. The H&N FTT was used for all shooting today. The Optimus pushes them out at 750fps and the Fury NP in the high 800s.

Crosman Optimus @50 yards (.177cal)
1.20, 0.93, 1.38, 1.42, 1.06, 1.23, 1.04, 1.56, 1.35, 1.62 = 1.28" ctc average

The 4 targets on the left were all shot together before I had to walk up and change the paper. These 4 averaged 1.11" ctc. I think I could get close to an even 1.0" average for 50 yards on a dead calm day.

After the targets shooting, I nailed my hanging 6" gong 8/10 offhand from 75 yards. I used the .177cal Fury NP for these shots thinking the extra speed would help with the wind.


Attachments:
Optimus Prime at 50 006b.jpg
Optimus Prime at 50 006b.jpg [ 345.25 KiB | Viewed 96 times ]
Optimus Prime at 50 007b.jpg
Optimus Prime at 50 007b.jpg [ 350.46 KiB | Viewed 96 times ]
Optimus Prime at 50 013b.jpg
Optimus Prime at 50 013b.jpg [ 369.51 KiB | Viewed 96 times ]
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 Post subject: Re: Optimus Prime
PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2021 11:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:04 pm
Posts: 201
Location: Lower Mainland, BC
TCooper wrote:
I had the Optimus Prime out for some exercise this afternoon
Ok, that is amazing! It’s so far. And it kinda freaks me out. But I was very inspired by this. Got right to work preparing a spot. I’m shooting 29, maybe 30m out there. A big change from tidy 17m indoors. I’ve only had one other outdoor session in this modern era for me, it was the Phantom. I was mostly shooting the Fusion today, and the Optimus (see photo). The Fusion may have longer legs.


Attachments:
IMG_0576 copy.JPG
IMG_0576 copy.JPG [ 347.88 KiB | Viewed 79 times ]

_________________
Stephen

Cometa Fusion .177 495 fps, Hawke Airmax 3-9x40
Crosman Optimus .177 495 fps, Ohhunt 3-9x32 AO IR
Crosman Phantom .22 495 fps, Hawke Vantage 3-9x40 AO
SPA WF600 .22 495 fps
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 Post subject: Re: Optimus Prime
PostPosted: Mon Aug 16, 2021 9:18 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:04 am
Posts: 1153
I'm impressed. My untuned Umarex surge couldn't reliably group 1" ctc at 10m.

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