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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:17 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:23 pm
Posts: 290
Location: Calgary
My Air Venturi rail lock spring compressor arrived so I had a go at stripping my first springer apart. The first victim is my new WF600 with about 100 shots through it.

The compressor worked great for taking it apart. The seals in the otherwise new gun looked like they had been put through the wars. There were a few metal flakes stuck into the piston seal face and both it and the breech seal were much harder and warn looking than the replacements.

The new spring is about 1.25" longer than the stock spring which seems odd as this is a rebuild kit for the gun not an upgrade kit. I bought the kit with the rifle.

This is the kit I used (didn't use the piston, screw, or the seal retainer).
https://canadashootingsupply.ca/product/wf600-repair-kit/

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I cleaned it all up, installed the new seals, put molly where I think is supposed to go then it all came off the rails. When I tried to put the compressor back on the rifle the bolt that squeezes it together to clamp on the dovetail seized. There wasn't even any pressure on it yet, looking closely there was a bit of tread coming out of the junction between the bolt body and the compressor. I have no idea how the tread bailed like this with no load on it. The bolt absolutely refuses to turn. I guess I'll call Canada Shooting Supply on Monday and see if they will warranty it or if I'm going to get the saw, drill, tap, what ever out and try and fix it.

I've attached some photos of the parts from when I was happy and making progress.

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Slavia 630/77, Slavia 624, 1322, 1377, 2240, 2240/2260 20", WF600, Vantage .22
Walther Falcon Hunter .22, Walther Talon Magnum .25
CR600W .22, CR600W/Stormrider PCP .22, Diana Stormrider .177
Diana Chaser .22, Diana Bandit/PP800 PCP .25


Last edited by Headdamage on Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:22 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:17 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:23 pm
Posts: 290
Location: Calgary
Turns out that if you weigh 300lbs and you are creative enough you can reassemble the spring into the gun without a spring compressor. It was not easy but it is in and the gun is together. Testing it will have to wait till tomorrow, I'm not convinced I have the trigger put back together correctly and that might be a problem but I hope it works.

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Slavia 630/77, Slavia 624, 1322, 1377, 2240, 2240/2260 20", WF600, Vantage .22
Walther Falcon Hunter .22, Walther Talon Magnum .25
CR600W .22, CR600W/Stormrider PCP .22, Diana Stormrider .177
Diana Chaser .22, Diana Bandit/PP800 PCP .25


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 8:33 am 
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Location: GTA, ON
Congrats! That's really a mile stone~ (at least I think so when I finished my first strips down and re-assembling ~ :) )

The new spring is so much longer sometimes only because it's new and not 'set' (never been used/fired). Some kit, spring providers would 'pre-set' the spring by simulating the fire cycle to fully compress the spring a few times and will 'shorten' it for an inch to a few inches. The pre set process will help a lot for shooters to install the spring by themselves.

Springer compressor helped a lot to open it up, but for a long pre load new spring installation, it won't help a lot... The crazy snake spring just don't want to align well to let you set it in.... :eek:

Anyway, no worry. You done! After maybe just one or two shots, it will be set. And after a hundred or two hundred shots I believe everything would be fully settle down.

And then you can check chrony numbers and group sizes to verify what the new kit brings you.

I don't have a chance to work on an entry Chinese springer before (I started with the nice 2nd good springers which been nicely maintained by the previous owner), but heard a lot of the factory job on those springers. So you made a very good move to start tuning and bringing a new much better life for your gun~

(I worked on my P17 tho, which I think it's much the same like the WF600 just I don't need 300lbs body weight and spring compressor to work on it~)

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CZ200s Color Laminated tuned to 10fpe
AA ProSport 177 Walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 70 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 10:38 am 
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Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:23 pm
Posts: 290
Location: Calgary
What you say about the spring setting in makes sense though there are 4 more coils on the new spring. I think if was 30.5 on the old and 34.5 on the new one if I counted correctly.

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Slavia 630/77, Slavia 624, 1322, 1377, 2240, 2240/2260 20", WF600, Vantage .22
Walther Falcon Hunter .22, Walther Talon Magnum .25
CR600W .22, CR600W/Stormrider PCP .22, Diana Stormrider .177
Diana Chaser .22, Diana Bandit/PP800 PCP .25


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 1:35 pm 
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Location: Kingston, ON
Headdamage wrote:
What you say about the spring setting in makes sense though there are 4 more coils on the new spring. I think if was 30.5 on the old and 34.5 on the new one if I counted correctly.

Yes, springs appear to be the same wire, and same coil rate, just longer in the replacement. I suspect it has to do with PAL vs Non-PAL and .177 vs .22. The WF600 were sold as non-PAL and maybe (just maybe) a different length spring in the .22 than .177 to keep the speed near 500. Or PAL spring is the 34.5 coil one.


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:14 pm 
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Location: P.G. B.C.
Might have something there, Duke. More coils on the .22 cal. primer due to greater expansion ratio of the larger bore reducing speed if
springs, etc, were the same length and dia..

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Daryl


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Sat Sep 03, 2005 9:25 am
Posts: 3892
Location: Ontario, Canada
I'm about 200 pounds and have never used a springer compressor. The full power WF-600 spring has about 2" of preload but it goes together with a bit of downward pressure with one hand and inserting the crosspin with the other. The plug goes in a bit further than flush so put a coin or washer on the table to get the plug deep enough.

My non-PAL .177cal WF-600 had 27 1/2 coils of .118" wire. I think Rick's .22cal non-PAL version had 30 coils. I replaced mine with the Crosman 4B spring with 33 coils of .118" wire. This is close to the OEM full power spring measurements.

Keep your old WF seals. They don't look too bad at all and might still work fine if they are not stiffened up or shrunk in size.

Try making a piston liner for the WF. Plastic from a large yogurt container works great. It sure tames down the twang and makes a very sweet shooting rifle. The rifle will sound like it's only shooting 300fps.

Keep posting updates! Interesting stuff!


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 2:53 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:23 pm
Posts: 290
Location: Calgary
Success! It cocks, the anti beartrap works, the safety works, and it fires.

For some reason the trigger is now good though it acts like a set trigger followed by a crisp very short throw trigger. When you start to pull it moves back with a click, then you can let go and it stays primed so to say. The second stage is very crisp now, not too light but crisp with not much movement. So much nicer to shoot now. All I did to the trigger was rub the pieces around in my molly stained hands before reassembling them.

The gun feels nice when shooting now, still has a bit of twang but it sounds mild. I've fired 50rds so far and the accuracy seems good, better than it was. I kept the chamber oil free as possible and there is no detonation and just a wisp of smoke from the barrel when opened.

I did need to shim the side stock screws with a couple of washers each, without the added washers the screws protruded far enough to block the cocking mechanism.

Velocity, oddly, seems a hair lower than before but more consistent. Formerly it was averaging 460fps (Crosman 14.3gr) but with a spread of around 15fps. Now it is averaging 451.8fps with a spread of 7fps.

With the Crosman alloy SSP pellets it is averaging 593.6fps with a spread of only 3fps. Interestingly it now sounds fine shooting these light weight pellets (9.5gr), before it sounded like it was being dry fired when I tried a couple of them.

I am curious as to how the longer spring with more coils resulted in almost the same energy but possibly nicer shooting characteristics.

Asside from the gimped up compressor I'm very happy with the results :)

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Slavia 630/77, Slavia 624, 1322, 1377, 2240, 2240/2260 20", WF600, Vantage .22
Walther Falcon Hunter .22, Walther Talon Magnum .25
CR600W .22, CR600W/Stormrider PCP .22, Diana Stormrider .177
Diana Chaser .22, Diana Bandit/PP800 PCP .25


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:25 pm 
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Some times longer spring doesn't equal stronger. It all depends on the room inside the gun. A longer spring may already have too much preload.

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:28 pm 
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Location: Vancouver Island BC
Did you kill the piston seal on its way in ........

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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 3:40 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:23 pm
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Location: Calgary
I think the seal is fine, I was careful to guide it in past the edges when putting it in the cylinder. Blocking the transfer port I couldn't push it down by hand, holding air. The seal was a much tighter fit in the cylinder than the original, in the photos you can sort of see that the new seal is larger in diameter. I know holding them face to face the new one was bigger, maybe it is dragging more than the original. If that is the case I think it might get better with use.

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Slavia 630/77, Slavia 624, 1322, 1377, 2240, 2240/2260 20", WF600, Vantage .22
Walther Falcon Hunter .22, Walther Talon Magnum .25
CR600W .22, CR600W/Stormrider PCP .22, Diana Stormrider .177
Diana Chaser .22, Diana Bandit/PP800 PCP .25


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 4:59 pm 
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Location: GTA, ON
Quick question here... When we talk about spring, we usually only mention how many coils and the diameter. Question is: does the spring material matters?

I don't think a spring from China and from Germany uses the same material... Although they all called spring steel I think...

(actually I never count how many coils and measure the diameter of the spring... Just being lazy and buy the kit or spring and trust the spec and performance description from the seller... And same spring works always a little or more different in different guns... )

_________________
CZ200s Color Laminated tuned to 10fpe
AA ProSport 177 Walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 70 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:07 pm 
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Joined: Tue Nov 18, 2014 12:23 pm
Posts: 290
Location: Calgary
Ran another 70 pellets though it. 14.3gr pellets now averaging 455.6fps and the 9.5gr pellets are averaging 600.2fps. The spreads for both increased somewhat.

In a way I'm happy the new spring didn't result in a big velocity increase, it is in the nice shooting at home plinking range now.

_________________
Slavia 630/77, Slavia 624, 1322, 1377, 2240, 2240/2260 20", WF600, Vantage .22
Walther Falcon Hunter .22, Walther Talon Magnum .25
CR600W .22, CR600W/Stormrider PCP .22, Diana Stormrider .177
Diana Chaser .22, Diana Bandit/PP800 PCP .25


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:34 pm 
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Location: GTA, ON
You managed doing this already ~

if I have time, I would do it again after a tin of pellets, just double check everything works well and if minor adjusting (maybe a washer or a sleeve etc~) needs etc...

Then, I think I will just keep shooting it until problem shows (like accuracy changes)...

_________________
CZ200s Color Laminated tuned to 10fpe
AA ProSport 177 Walnut in 12fpe
FWB300S Universal
HW 30s / 35e
HW 40+Extender / Scoped P3 / 45 / 70 / 75
Russian Izzy 46M
2240 14" barrel carbine


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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2021 5:46 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:17 pm
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Location: Kingston, ON
YepYep wrote:
Quick question here... When we talk about spring, we usually only mention how many coils and the diameter.......they all called spring steel I think... Question is: does the spring material matters?


Yes material matters, if it is crappy steel then the performance and life will be short. If it is high quality steel the performance and life will be good. Like you can't just order a steak, it needs to be a good quality steak and processed well, or you'll be chewing shoe leather... still called steak. Good spring steel will remain elastic even after many thousand compression cycles to coil bind, and will last longer than poor quality steel. My 2c.

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