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 Post subject: Red Ryder PCP
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:17 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:20 pm
Posts: 2374
Location: Spruce Grove AB
I get distracted easily... Lately found myself building a .357 rifle. Being a pistol cartridge caliber, and a rifle... Why not a lever gun?
So I sacrificed a daisy BB gun be for the lever and trigger.
I'm figuring the design out starting with the hammer, which is lever cocked. Took me 2 days of pondering but I got it. Cut a slot in the hammer, so the lever can grab it from in front of the skirt. I don't know, hard to explain. Check out the mock-up pictures.

Trigger unit is getting cut up a little to allow some room in front of it. Gotta make it fit. But it should work. The hammer itself will be getting a latch rod, acting as a spring guide... Engaging with the trigger sear same like a t-06 trigger, kinda. I tried to keep the action portion as short as possible, Since the transfer port has to be ahead of the hammer...

The spring measures about 24 lbs at bind. The hammer with the latch rod installed should be around 150 grams. Going with rsternes general guide on hammer weights! Hammer stroke should be around 1-1/4". Goal is 140 ft/lbs with this one... Conventional valve for now... If the need arises, maybe I'll delve into the balanced valve stuff...

Anyway, the air cylinder I'll be using was built by forum member gippetto. It isn't pictured .. but the tube used for this action is brass, and as such will not be pressurized. I plan to build a valve that attaches to the air cylinder independently. It's the next design phase. Need to research how thick to make the valve... :lol:

Well, have a look. Have a laugh, whatever


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 Post subject: Re: Red Ryder PCP
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 12:16 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:54 pm
Posts: 6267
Location: Saint John NB
Here is a lever action pumper I had.....a Smith and Wesson 77a. You could use this setup but have it PCP instead of a pumper.......

BTW if you ever have the chance to own one, do it. :mrgreen:


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 Post subject: Re: Red Ryder PCP
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 3:06 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:20 pm
Posts: 2374
Location: Spruce Grove AB
Oh I've never seen one of those. Very nice, yes if I ever saw one for sale I'd do what I could to buy it :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Red Ryder PCP
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:46 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:20 pm
Posts: 2374
Location: Spruce Grove AB
Here's some progress.
Made a block out of some plastic I have... Cut it out with a hacksaw then trued it up with the 4 jaw chuck. Faced on all 6 sides, bored the hole off center then milled a pocket for the lever.
Milled a slot in the tube... Next I need to figure out the trigger unit.

After a couple of minor adjustments everything fits so far. I'm able to cock the hammer to coil bind with little effort.

This tube was put together for me many moons ago by an old member here, doctorfrankengun. The idea was some inline valved gun but it never happened. Now it has a purpose. The thin slit in the tube will be utilized. I'll install a pin in the front radius of the hammer to keep it from rotating.

In the future I might find someone to 3d print a more aesthetically pleasing lever block... Maybe something longer, with a Picatinny rail on it :wink: but I'd like to have the front of the lever covered up...

I'll probably use the existing holes in the tube to hold the valve in place. And maybe a front stock.


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 Post subject: Re: Red Ryder PCP
PostPosted: Thu Oct 28, 2021 9:50 pm 
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Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:54 pm
Posts: 6267
Location: Saint John NB
Looking good so far......cant wait to see where you go with it......

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 Post subject: Re: Red Ryder PCP
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:48 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:20 pm
Posts: 2374
Location: Spruce Grove AB
So I got the action all put together with a latch rod on the hammer, and I overlooked the return stroke of the lever once the hammer is cocked. Of course the slot was too short, hammer too.... So I extended it. It weighs 180 grams now. Pretty heavy... I know the spring looks huge but it's pretty soft.
And now that I'm sitting with a coffee I remember I didn't measure the power stroke length. It's about 1".
Plan to let the hammer coast for about .1-.2" before hitting the stem. Might not bounce too much...
The latch rod's latch? It's peek. I experimented with peek as a hammer in a mk1 pistol. It was way too light to be practical but the trigger was so sweet! No need to polish and harden anything. Nice and slick. This new iteration is just as good.

So, it all works. Slow process.
The valve is 1-1/4 OD. That's one big valve. You could hide a 2240 valve inside it :lol: still a work in progress.

Here's the action, all figured out.


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 Post subject: Re: Red Ryder PCP
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2021 5:49 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:20 pm
Posts: 2374
Location: Spruce Grove AB
One more


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 Post subject: Re: Red Ryder PCP
PostPosted: Sun Oct 31, 2021 9:56 pm 
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Joined: Tue Jun 03, 2008 5:46 pm
Posts: 3008
Location: Canada
Interesting project Al. 8)

For valve wall thickness, you can use Barlow's formula and a decent safety factor. I may have mentioned I like 3x at yield.

https://www.engineersedge.com/calculato ... t_calc.htm

If you need something, feel free to reach out and I'll see what I can do to help.

Regards,
Al


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 Post subject: Re: Red Ryder PCP
PostPosted: Fri Nov 05, 2021 2:20 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:20 pm
Posts: 2374
Location: Spruce Grove AB
Its quite the contraption, that's for sure :lol:
Ok, I made some headway... The valve is together and holding its initial charge of 1500psi. I messed up when I was boring out the valve body I went a little small, so it will have a maximum fill pressure of 2500psi. Unregulated and just a conventional valve... Although I used all the tricks I know :lol: well almost. I was going to seal the valve stem... Make sure it works first.
At the moment my biggest concern is the valve stem itself. It's 1/8" tool steel. I have just over 3/4" sticking out the back of the valve.... I hope it doesn't bend. I bent a stem trying to press it into the peek poppet first go around. We will see.

Valve face is flat, with an undercut poppet measuring .40" diameter. The throat is .38", id of valve body is .86" so lots of room for air :lol:

Got a 180g hammer and 1.4" of spring load at 24lbs... I'm thinking it's overkill. In hindsight, if this thing works, I want to build a composite adjustable hammer and balance the valve.

Oh yeah, the valve sealed up first try. 8)


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 Post subject: Re: Red Ryder PCP
PostPosted: Sat Nov 06, 2021 11:12 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:20 pm
Posts: 2374
Location: Spruce Grove AB
Needed some breech bands for this thing. Going about securing the breech a little different. The breech itself is going to be delrin, bands are delrin too.

I found myself looking for a source of delrin square stock... Then I figured I could just make it myself. I have 1-1/2" rod to work with.
So I cut a piece at 2-1/4" long, put in the 4 jaw and faced each side. Turned out ok. In 2 hours I had 2 bands, including the layout and figuring with the chuck. And for what they are, I think more than strong enough to hold the breech down. One goes over the transfer port and one at the back of the breech.
Might play with dowel pins drilled through the sides of things once I get everything indexed.

Test fire in a day or so :lol:


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 Post subject: Re: Red Ryder PCP
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 2:30 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:20 pm
Posts: 2374
Location: Spruce Grove AB
Well I changed my mind and just went with the old qb78 breech. My first idea was good in theory but it made things way more complicated than they needed to be. Repurposed the bands, one barrel band and one lever pivot block. Whatever you wanna call it.

I need to make an extended rear breech plug so I can bolt it down to something solid.

Then I need a stock... Going to be an interesting endeavor to say the least. I don't really see a way to secure it directly to the back of the action tube, so it will have to be cradled in the stock like a modern rifle.

Anyway I did test fire it once in the garage, just the action without a barrel/breech attached. I wrapped a sock tight around the exhaust port, put it on a towel facing down, held it down with some force, also with another towel for padding :lol: I didn't know what to expect. At 1500psi using a short air cylinder (I'm guessing 6 cu/in) I got one shot. Now I know it's not a very scientific method of measurement... But I mean with me holding the thing down, and all the padding, it still lifted about 6" off the chair. She gon' crank :twisted: :lol:

I'd love to shoot it over the chrony but I figure it's too loud...


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 Post subject: Re: Red Ryder PCP
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:38 pm 
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Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2013 12:46 am
Posts: 5698
am I missing something
how is this trigger suppose to work... :?


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 Post subject: Re: Red Ryder PCP
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 5:57 pm 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:20 pm
Posts: 2374
Location: Spruce Grove AB
It works. It clears the lever, I just have to manually set it for now til I get a spring in place. Getting that trigger and lever to line up just right was the most challenging part of this whole thing.
I promise it works.. I just shot it I'm my garage. :lol:
1000 psi for shot #1, gave me 93 ft/lbs.
Then of course, who runs 1000psi?
Fill to 2000psi. Air blast blew my whole chrony setup away. No reading, will have to wait til I take it for a drive.

Everything held together. No transfer port or bolt seal leaking either. Quite pleased so far.


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 Post subject: Re: Red Ryder PCP
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 7:01 pm 
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Posts: 6267
Location: Saint John NB
LOL, man I gotta give you credit.......I love seeing posts like this. You are going places only a few of our current and former members have gone. I cannot wait to see your next update!!

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 Post subject: Re: Red Ryder PCP
PostPosted: Wed Nov 10, 2021 8:20 pm 
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Joined: Wed Feb 07, 2018 8:10 pm
Posts: 1370
Location: Winnipeg MB
I can't wait to see how this story ends.

Please keep us all posted, inc. pictures.

If you are successful, I would like to offer up a Daisy 1894 for the next conversion.


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