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PostPosted: Sat Nov 20, 2021 3:16 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:45 am
Posts: 191
Location: Quebec, Quebec
Hi, some one had see a big velocity change with a dirty and a clean barrel on the 22xx crosman serie.

I received my h&n final match 177 7.83 gr , before to test it i clean my barrel because i used crosman wadcutter 7.4 gr, the crosman really dirty my barrel . I pass one patch with 10w non detergent oil follow by 4 dry patch who came out full of black grunk.

With the crosman i got around 495 fps at muzzle, i test the h&n with clean barrel got 450 fps. Start shooting everything going nice . After around 50 shoots, my poi move test with the chrony and now got just a bit under 495 fps a 45 fps more than my number with clean barrel.

It s weird for me someone have experience like that ?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 12:26 am 
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Location: Chilliwack, BC
I have done a lot of chronograph measurements of various air guns, but haven't thought to pay attention to clean versus dirty barrel.

(Feeling foolish and adding that to the list of things to measure) VBG

Given that, like many air gun dynamics, the events are different, even opposite to what I expect, I am eagerly following to see what can be learned, Thanks for posting this.

One thought: are you certain that there isn't some other factor confusing the chronograph results? IDK what that might be, but perhaps that's worth considering?

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:52 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:45 am
Posts: 191
Location: Quebec, Quebec
Normk wrote:
I have done a lot of chronograph measurements of various air guns, but haven't thought to pay attention to clean versus dirty barrel.

(Feeling foolish and adding that to the list of things to measure) VBG

Given that, like many air gun dynamics, the events are different, even opposite to what I expect, I am eagerly following to see what can be learned, Thanks for posting this.

One thought: are you certain that there isn't some other factor confusing the chronograph results? IDK what that might be, but perhaps that's worth considering?



I use a chrony F1 , i make a permanent set up with the same light over the sensor a beeman bullet trap to stop pellet and i rest and the same place (around 2 feets).

I see something happen because i get a 3 shoots target with large dispersion, after that i get normal group but i have to reajust my sight that s why i stop my match and shoot on the chrony.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:26 am 
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:45 am
Posts: 191
Location: Quebec, Quebec
matou2041 wrote:
Normk wrote:
I have done a lot of chronograph measurements of various air guns, but haven't thought to pay attention to clean versus dirty barrel.

(Feeling foolish and adding that to the list of things to measure) VBG

Given that, like many air gun dynamics, the events are different, even opposite to what I expect, I am eagerly following to see what can be learned, Thanks for posting this.

One thought: are you certain that there isn't some other factor confusing the chronograph results? IDK what that might be, but perhaps that's worth considering?



I use a chrony F1 , i make a permanent set up with the same light over the sensor a beeman bullet trap to stop pellet and i rest and the same place (around 2 feets).

I see something happen because i get a 3 shoots target with large dispersion, after that i get normal group but i have to reajust my sight that s why i stop my match and shoot on the chrony.



https://postimg.cc/XBdVm6Hd

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 7:47 am 
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Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
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Location: GTA, ON
Clean barrel vs dirty one that could affect performance looks depends to me... I didn't notice much (or say need to clean my guns) before until the cz200.

The cz200 is my latest purchase. I have to admit I shoot it much often than my other guns so far and I did clean the barrel for 2 or 3 times already... Looks maybe just a tin something I need a cleaning...

A dirty barrel on the cz200 did more to affect muzzle speed and accuracy than my other guns. However it didn't bring down the power for 40/50 fps that much and usually just make it inconsistent more than bringing down the speed.

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PostPosted: Sun Nov 21, 2021 3:27 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
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Location: P.G. B.C.
Another test could be cleaned gun and lubricated pellets vs. dirty gun with lubed pellets.
Experimentation is rarely done, which of course depends on what you are looking for & to
what lengths you are willing to go to obtain the desired end result.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 12:24 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:45 am
Posts: 191
Location: Quebec, Quebec
Daryl wrote:
Another test could be cleaned gun and lubricated pellets vs. dirty gun with lubed pellets.
Experimentation is rarely done, which of course depends on what you are looking for & to
what lengths you are willing to go to obtain the desired end result.



Looking for best accuracy and repetability i use this gun for target shooting with 60 shoots match.

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PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2021 5:43 pm 
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Location: P.G. B.C.
Well, you have some work ahead of you. Documentation of your testing will be necessary. To that extent & for my own testing I
have several 3-ring binders with hole punched pages for them for my reloading of many different powder burning rifles, shotguns
and handguns. I find this sort of record taking is necessary for repeated performance - I also have one 3-ring binder called AIR.
This, of course is for my air rifles and contains targets shot along with data I have recorded.
Record keeping is necessary when multiple variables are present and possibly change results. I have learned over the years, when
changing circumstances on testing, that is, in making changes in any aspect, change only one thing at a time - records you keep,
prevent making the same change, more than once.

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PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2021 6:26 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:45 am
Posts: 191
Location: Quebec, Quebec
Daryl wrote:
Well, you have some work ahead of you. Documentation of your testing will be necessary. To that extent & for my own testing I
have several 3-ring binders with hole punched pages for them for my reloading of many different powder burning rifles, shotguns
and handguns. I find this sort of record taking is necessary for repeated performance - I also have one 3-ring binder called AIR.
This, of course is for my air rifles and contains targets shot along with data I have recorded.
Record keeping is necessary when multiple variables are present and possibly change results. I have learned over the years, when
changing circumstances on testing, that is, in making changes in any aspect, change only one thing at a time - records you keep,
prevent making the same change, more than once.


I had do lot of powder burner load development, my best one was a3/8 moa load for a savage 10 fp in 308 win.

I just write a procedure to test pellet tonfind the best one for this gun, i will post it to get some inside if i miss something .

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:10 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 11301
Location: P.G. B.C.
matou2041 wrote:

I had do lot of powder burner load development, my best one was a3/8 moa load for a savage 10 fp in 308 win.

I just write a procedure to test pellet tonfind the best one for this gun, i will post it to get some inside if i miss something .


3/8" from a sporter is very good. I assume this is at 100 yards or meters. Savage & CZ rifles are usually the most accurate, out of the box rifles
especially in varmint calibres.

Using a good & steady rest, good sights and testing a variety of pellets is the way I test pellets. Proper breathing and trigger control are very important.
Oxygenate a couple breaths, then let out 1/2 of the third breath, hold, align and squeeze. Stop squeezing if anything happens to the sight picture - breath
again & repeat. Do not hold for more than about 6 to 8 seconds at most. If you do, you will become oxygen deficient and start to wander and/or the sight picture
will become embedded in your mind and you will not see the sights move off target. If you take the shot after holding too long, you will hit where the gun is actually
pointed, not where you think it's pointed.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 3:23 pm 
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Joined: Fri Jan 04, 2019 11:45 am
Posts: 159
matou2041 wrote:
Hi, some one had see a big velocity change with a dirty and a clean barrel on the 22xx crosman serie.

I received my h&n final match 177 7.83 gr , before to test it i clean my barrel because i used crosman wadcutter 7.4 gr, the crosman really dirty my barrel . I pass one patch with 10w non detergent oil follow by 4 dry patch who came out full of black grunk.

With the crosman i got around 495 fps at muzzle, i test the h&n with clean barrel got 450 fps. Start shooting everything going nice . After around 50 shoots, my poi move test with the chrony and now got just a bit under 495 fps a 45 fps more than my number with clean barrel.

It s weird for me someone have experience like that ?


providing that you shoot consistently and pellets are the same size in the batch - I would think that barrel has some imperfections or scratches which were filled with lead residue from your 50 shots. Then you have better seal in the barrel and fps improved as a result. At least that's all I can think of...


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2021 4:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:45 am
Posts: 191
Location: Quebec, Quebec
scanny wrote:
matou2041 wrote:
Hi, some one had see a big velocity change with a dirty and a clean barrel on the 22xx crosman serie.

I received my h&n final match 177 7.83 gr , before to test it i clean my barrel because i used crosman wadcutter 7.4 gr, the crosman really dirty my barrel . I pass one patch with 10w non detergent oil follow by 4 dry patch who came out full of black grunk.

With the crosman i got around 495 fps at muzzle, i test the h&n with clean barrel got 450 fps. Start shooting everything going nice . After around 50 shoots, my poi move test with the chrony and now got just a bit under 495 fps a 45 fps more than my number with clean barrel.

It s weird for me someone have experience like that ?


providing that you shoot consistently and pellets are the same size in the batch - I would think that barrel has some imperfections or scratches which were filled with lead residue from your 50 shots. Then you have better seal in the barrel and fps improved as a result. At least that's all I can think of...


That s what i think barrel problem

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:15 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 11301
Location: P.G. B.C.
You can very carefully lap the bore with Scotch Brite square patch on a jag & cleaning rod. I say carefully, due to the soft steel used in most air rifle barrels.
The light grey scotch brite might be the best 'grade' for use inside the bore. Use something like WD40 on the patch. You must be VERY careful not to damage
the crown. Removal of the barrel is suggested.
Different weight AND make of pellets produce different velocities. Normal. This means if 2 companies make the same weight pellets, they will most likely produce
different velocities.

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:55 pm 
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Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2008 10:45 am
Posts: 191
Location: Quebec, Quebec
Daryl wrote:
You can very carefully lap the bore with Scotch Brite square patch on a jag & cleaning rod. I say carefully, due to the soft steel used in most air rifle barrels.
The light grey scotch brite might be the best 'grade' for use inside the bore. Use something like WD40 on the patch. You must be VERY careful not to damage
the crown. Removal of the barrel is suggested.
Different weight AND make of pellets produce different velocities. Normal. This means if 2 companies make the same weight pellets, they will most likely produce
different velocities.


The change appear with the same tin of pellet, it s happen on the middle of a trainning match. From then the pistol shoot on the 495 fps with all pellet i have around 7.5 gr and slow down a bit with the 7.83 gr maybe 5 fps less.

To lap the barrel i have to take the pistol appart if i take appart i will be switch for a LW one.

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