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paddyfritz
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 9:39 pm 
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Ludger wrote:
Telling me the police can confiscate my collection at any time is a contradiction of the law about to be passed.
With all due respect you sound angry and paranoid and quite frankly your entire reply is curt and rude. I no longer want to be part of this forum.

Last post!


The proposed law states they can be seized by police at anytime. They do not have to have a reason.

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Daryl
PostPosted: Fri Jul 01, 2022 10:42 pm 
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Good buy.
What has been stated, is what these proposed laws say/imply.
If you would like to interpret them differently, go for it - free speech and all of that(at least for now).

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TCooper
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 9:56 am 
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It doesn't look like the handgun storage laws apply to the non-PAL prohib airguns. No trigger locks or locked boxes/cabinets/safes needed. Of course you would keep all airguns secured away from children, if you have them.
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YepYep
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:24 am 
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I see these bills just gave out more gray areas for the police or gov to do what they want to do without a ' proper ' order or necessary documents....

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Daryl
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:26 am 
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Interpretations: Gotta wait for case law to dictated what's what. Sometimes that takes a while.
There were order-in-council changes made back in the 70's & 80's that are actual LAW, but still
haven't been proclaimed.

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Headdamage
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 11:32 am 
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I don't know what the end result will be but I've ordered both a SIG P320 CO2 pistol and the real SIG P320 so that I have a competition gun and an at home practice version. I'm haven't shot competition pistol in several years but incase I want to again I better buy what I might need while I still can.

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Daryl
PostPosted: Sat Jul 02, 2022 10:08 pm 
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Exactly.

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paddyfritz
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 6:41 pm 
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CCFR and criminal firearms lawyer Ian Runkle speaking about airsoft under C-21. Keep in mind replica airsoft and replica airguns will be treated the same under this law. Ian confirms my statement about the police being able to seize prohibited replicas whenever they want.
https://vimeo.com/726555145

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TCooper
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:18 pm 
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Yup, if you are acting goofy with a replica pellet gun then you could have your thing seized by the police. Don't do anything that could give "reason of a possible danger to the safety of the person or any other person". The court will use the "danger" lens to look at your actions. Don't go waving your replica around on the street or in WalMart. Be safe and don't give anyone a reason to call the police. I know our local police are far too busy to look for airsoft games or people plinking in the country... unless someone makes the "danger" call.

Bill C-21
Search and seizure without warrant
(6) If, in respect of a person who is subject to an order made under subsection (3), a peace officer is satisfied that there are reasonable grounds to believe that it is not desirable, in the interests of the safety of the person, or of any other person, for the person to possess any thing the possession of which is prohibited by the order, the peace officer may — if the grounds for obtaining a warrant under subsection (5) exist but, by reason of a possible danger to the safety of the person or any other person, it would not be practicable to obtain a warrant — search for and seize any such thing, and any authorization, licence or registration certificate relating to any such thing, that is held by or in the possession of the person.
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paddyfritz
PostPosted: Sun Jul 03, 2022 9:53 pm 
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TCooper wrote:
Yup, if you are acting goofy with a replica pellet gun then you could have your thing seized by the police. Don't do anything that could give "reason of a possible danger to the safety of the person or any other person". The court will use the "danger" lens to look at your actions. Don't go waving your replica around on the street or in WalMart. Be safe and don't give anyone a reason to call the police. I know our local police are far too busy to look for airsoft games or people plinking in the country... unless someone makes the "danger" call.

Bill C-21
Search and seizure without warrant
(6) If, in respect of a person who is subject to an order made under subsection (3), a peace officer is satisfied that there are reasonable grounds to believe that it is not desirable, in the interests of the safety of the person, or of any other person, for the person to possess any thing the possession of which is prohibited by the order, the peace officer may — if the grounds for obtaining a warrant under subsection (5) exist but, by reason of a possible danger to the safety of the person or any other person, it would not be practicable to obtain a warrant — search for and seize any such thing, and any authorization, licence or registration certificate relating to any such thing, that is held by or in the possession of the person.


That is part of the "red flag" portion of the law. As far as prohibited replicas go, they can just take them anytime, without reason.

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TCooper
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 12:28 am 
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paddyfritz wrote:
TCooper wrote:
Yup, if you are acting goofy with a replica pellet gun then you could have your thing seized by the police. Don't do anything that could give "reason of a possible danger to the safety of the person or any other person". The court will use the "danger" lens to look at your actions. Don't go waving your replica around on the street or in WalMart. Be safe and don't give anyone a reason to call the police. I know our local police are far too busy to look for airsoft games or people plinking in the country... unless someone makes the "danger" call.

Bill C-21
Search and seizure without warrant
(6) If, in respect of a person who is subject to an order made under subsection (3), a peace officer is satisfied that there are reasonable grounds to believe that it is not desirable, in the interests of the safety of the person, or of any other person, for the person to possess any thing the possession of which is prohibited by the order, the peace officer may — if the grounds for obtaining a warrant under subsection (5) exist but, by reason of a possible danger to the safety of the person or any other person, it would not be practicable to obtain a warrant — search for and seize any such thing, and any authorization, licence or registration certificate relating to any such thing, that is held by or in the possession of the person.


That is part of the "red flag" portion of the law. As far as prohibited replicas go, they can just take them anytime, without reason.


I'm struggling to find the amendment that allows the police to legally take a prohib replica without reason. Are you referring to the "yellow flag" law at 69.1(1)? The link is below. Thanks.

https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/4 ... st-reading
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YepYep
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 6:45 am 
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TCooper wrote:
paddyfritz wrote:
TCooper wrote:
Yup, if you are acting goofy with a replica pellet gun then you could have your thing seized by the police. Don't do anything that could give "reason of a possible danger to the safety of the person or any other person". The court will use the "danger" lens to look at your actions. Don't go waving your replica around on the street or in WalMart. Be safe and don't give anyone a reason to call the police. I know our local police are far too busy to look for airsoft games or people plinking in the country... unless someone makes the "danger" call.

Bill C-21
Search and seizure without warrant
(6)[EN SPACE]If, in respect of a person who is subject to an order made under subsection (3), a peace officer is satisfied that there are reasonable grounds to believe that it is not desirable, in the interests of the safety of the person, or of any other person, for the person to possess any thing the possession of which is prohibited by the order, the peace officer may — if the grounds for obtaining a warrant under subsection (5) exist but, by reason of a possible danger to the safety of the person or any other person, it would not be practicable to obtain a warrant — search for and seize any such thing, and any authorization, licence or registration certificate relating to any such thing, that is held by or in the possession of the person.


That is part of the "red flag" portion of the law. As far as prohibited replicas go, they can just take them anytime, without reason.


I'm struggling to find the amendment that allows the police to legally take a prohib replica without reason. Are you referring to the "yellow flag" law at 69.1(1)? The link is below. Thanks.

https://www.parl.ca/DocumentViewer/en/4 ... st-reading
I believe that's true. They couldn't do so without a reason... However, most of the time, it's just too easy to find a reason as the law never clearly put or list what can be a reason and what can not....

So a ' possible danger' is good enough for the police to do anything.... Should we call that ' without a reason ' too?!

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Daryl
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 9:54 am 
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This is the only "reason" needed for the confiscation:

" a peace officer is satisfied that there are reasonable grounds to believe that it is not desirable, in the interests of the safety of the person, or of any other person, for the person to possess any thing the possession of which is prohibited by the order,"

"reasonable grounds to believe and does believe"
For him or her (peace officer), a civilian in possession of any gun might be "believable grounds". Think about it from an anti gun person's side.
There are many of these "people" wearing uniforms these days.

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paddyfritz
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:04 am 
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It's buried in the full text. I don't have time this week to search it out. I saved it on my hard drive, but don't remember what it was labeled as. It's discussed in one of Ian's videos. https://www.youtube.com/c/RunkleOfTheBailey

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TCooper
PostPosted: Mon Jul 04, 2022 10:22 am 
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It appears that an anti-gun police officer would also have to collude with the justice in order to have an agreement on the grounds entitling the officer to conduct the search and take your things. Otherwise it was a wrongful seizure and your things are returned. Of course, we could see a rogue police officer stealing your airguns and taking them home or dumping them in a swamp. Anything is possible but that's why we carry cellphone cameras and record interactions.


Return to provincial court judge or justice
(7) A peace officer who executes a warrant referred to in subsection (5) or who conducts a search without a warrant under subsection (6) shall immediately make a return to the provincial court judge who issued the warrant or, if no warrant was issued, to a justice who might otherwise have issued a warrant, showing

(a) in the case of an execution of a warrant, the things or documents, if any, seized and the date of execution of the warrant; and

(b) in the case of a search conducted without a warrant, the grounds on which it was concluded that the peace officer was entitled to conduct the search, and the things or documents, if any, seized.
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