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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:14 pm 
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Hello all,

I recently bought my son a new .177 break action pellet gun and it got me interested in restoring my Dad's 50+ year old pellet gun.

I don't know the make or model but that shouldn't matter since my question is more generic.

I wanted to drill and tap so I could add a scope or a red dot or something. There are no dovetails or anything on this thing, just old school open sights.

The concern I have is that this is a Spring gun, and I am wondering if drilling through the spring chamber would somehow"break" the gun or reduce it's power due to pressure loss. Or would the screw for the mounting system basically "plug" the hole and effectively change nothing.

I am really new to the world of airguns and couldn't for the life of me find any information online regarding this. Lots on adding optics to guns that already have dovetails or some other rail systems, and lots about drilling and tapping "real" guns with no spring chamber that moves air to create pressure to move the projectile.

Appreciate it
K


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:43 pm 
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Location: Kingston, ON
Korcraft wrote:
...I am wondering if drilling through the spring chamber would somehow"break" the gun or reduce it's power due to pressure loss. Or would the screw for the mounting system basically "plug" the hole and effectively change nothing.
K

Welcome to the forum.
The holes for the scope rail would be behind the piston seal so they will not affect the functioning of the rifle. So, just make sure you don't drill the tube anywhere in front of the piston seal (position with the spring compressed and rifle is cocked of course). You will have to align the scope rail with the barrel/tube very carefully and accurately, and use red locktite to hold the screws permanently in the tube. Grind and hone the inside of the tube so the screws are not protruding at all inside, and you're good to go.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:50 pm 
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Dukemeister wrote:
Korcraft wrote:
...I am wondering if drilling through the spring chamber would somehow"break" the gun or reduce it's power due to pressure loss. Or would the screw for the mounting system basically "plug" the hole and effectively change nothing.
K

Welcome to the forum.
The holes for the scope rail would be behind the piston seal so they will not affect the functioning of the rifle. So, just make sure you don't drill the tube anywhere in front of the piston seal (position with the spring compressed and rifle is cocked of course). You will have to align the scope rail with the barrel/tube very carefully and accurately, and use red locktite to hold the screws permanently in the tube. Grind and hone the inside of the tube so the screws are not protruding at all inside, and you're good to go.



I see. So I can drill where the spring is just obviously don't obstruct the spring in any way. Now that I think about it that makes sense.

Thanks,
K


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:50 pm 
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Joined: Tue Apr 27, 2021 7:53 am
Posts: 310
Location: East Of Hamilton
The piston inside the tube gets pushed all the way back past the trigger, when the gun is cocked. There is very little clearance between the inside of the tube and the outside of the piston. The piston is close to half the length of the tube. If you drill and tap holes in the tube then inside of the tube will need to be buffed. The tube is thin and normaly only a has small hole to mount a stop for the scope rings, or to insert the ring stop pin. Any rail that you would want to mount on the gun would need to have the same radius as the outer diameter as the tube.

If I needed to mount a scope on this gun I would cut a section out of a pipe about 6 inches long with the inside diameter equal to outside of the tube on the gun. I would make it about 13mm wide. I would then file the edges to match the angles of a set 11mm scope mounts. I would ether tig weld this to the tube of the gun or drill and bolt it to the tube. This rail would accept the scope mounts.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:27 pm 
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McRobert wrote:
The piston inside the tube gets pushed all the way back past the trigger, when the gun is cocked. There is very little clearance between the inside of the tube and the outside of the piston. The piston is close to half the length of the tube. If you drill and tap holes in the tube then inside of the tube will need to be buffed. The tube is thin and normaly only a has small hole to mount a stop for the scope rings, or to insert the ring stop pin. Any rail that you would want to mount on the gun would need to have the same radius as the outer diameter as the tube.

If I needed to mount a scope on this gun I would cut a section out of a pipe about 6 inches long with the inside diameter equal to outside of the tube on the gun. I would make it about 13mm wide. I would then file the edges to match the angles of a set 11mm scope mounts. I would ether tig weld this to the tube of the gun or drill and bolt it to the tube. This rail would accept the scope mounts.


That is an interesting idea actually. Welding an extra piece of steel to it where the rails would go and drill and tap that. The nice thing there is I could drill and tap it first and if I make a mistake I won't have destroyed the gun! haha.

Nice thought thanks


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 9:34 pm 
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Location: P.G. B.C.
I would think the tubes are too thin for screws. Your should have at least 3 threads on the screws PLUS the Locktite. Not sure if 3 threads would even "hold"
on a springer in the first place.
I would suggest leave Dad's rifle as-is, for iron sight shooting. It makes a good "learning" tool.

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 10:12 pm 
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Daryl wrote:
I would think the tubes are too thin for screws. Your should have at least 3 threads on the screws PLUS the Locktite. Not sure if 3 threads would even "hold"
on a springer in the first place.
I would suggest leave Dad's rifle as-is, for iron sight shooting. It makes a good "learning" tool.


Fair enough. perhaps I will. This is why I came here because I don't know enough about these types of guns to make a confident decision.


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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 10:51 pm 
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Location: Vancouver Island BC
Korcraft wrote:
Daryl wrote:
I would think the tubes are too thin for screws. Your should have at least 3 threads on the screws PLUS the Locktite. Not sure if 3 threads would even "hold"
on a springer in the first place.
I would suggest leave Dad's rifle as-is, for iron sight shooting. It makes a good "learning" tool.


Fair enough. perhaps I will. This is why I came here because I don't know enough about these types of guns to make a confident decision.


You can get a tube for that gun with the mounts cut in to the tube from the factory i will have a look if i have one ....

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PostPosted: Wed Nov 09, 2022 11:24 pm 
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Posts: 360
Location: Chilliwack, BC
Korcraft wrote:
Daryl wrote:
I would think the tubes are too thin for screws. Your should have at least 3 threads on the screws PLUS the Locktite. Not sure if 3 threads would even "hold"
on a springer in the first place.
I would suggest leave Dad's rifle as-is, for iron sight shooting. It makes a good "learning" tool.


Fair enough. perhaps I will. This is why I came here because I don't know enough about these types of guns to make a confident decision.



Same cautions as everyone else- it's tough to get enough thickness of metal to engage sufficient threads.

About 65 years ago, my dad had a local machinist fit a side mount scope mount to a European springer for me. He machined the ends of the screws to match the bore, in order to mount the scope far enough forward for eye relief. We had no idea about the effect which springers have on scopes, but remained lucky.

How much was skill and how much luck, IDK, but he managed to attach the scope mount so that the scope was close as "spit" to the center of scope adjustment.

I can imagine at least (3) members who could manage this precision work, but I'm wise enough to know that I'm not one of them.

A friend purchased a used Diana 48 from which the scope rail detached (apparently attached by an adhesive). He had a local shop TIG the rail onto the cylinder, and was skilled/lucky.

He has since changed scope and mount to an adjustable mount, and has been working well for weekly shoots for a several years.

FWIW, I would be considering an epoxy, or perhaps solder as those would be reversable in the event that placement needed correction.

My bottom line, as I have done with two air guns which belonged to my father (one purchased just after WW2) is to keep them in as good condition as I can. I can pay for better guns than those, but no amount of money would replace one of Dad's guns.

Here are links to the TIG mount on the 48, FWIW.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/do0fmixaqv7eu ... 8.jpg?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/7rk7rm5mcvbh2 ... 5.jpg?dl=0

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2022 1:53 am 
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Just 2 tacks, or one on each end as well, Normk?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2022 3:56 am 
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Location: Eastern Townships
Korcraft wrote:
Hello all,

I recently bought my son a new .177 break action pellet gun and it got me interested in restoring my Dad's 50+ year old pellet gun.

I don't know the make or model but that shouldn't matter since my question is more generic.

K


Hi and welcome!

I believe your rifle may well be a Relum, most probably a Telly model, or a variation with another name (Marla?). Does the front trigger guard screw has another small screw into it? Are there any markings on the gun, like ''Made in Hungary'' or ''Foreign''?

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PostPosted: Thu Nov 10, 2022 7:53 am 
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Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2005 6:52 pm
Posts: 8450
Location: Vancouver Island BC
airmec wrote:
Korcraft wrote:
Hello all,

I recently bought my son a new .177 break action pellet gun and it got me interested in restoring my Dad's 50+ year old pellet gun.

I don't know the make or model but that shouldn't matter since my question is more generic.

K


Hi and welcome!

I believe your rifle may well be a Relum, most probably a Telly model, or a variation with another name (Marla?). Does the front trigger guard screw has another small screw into it? Are there any markings on the gun, like ''Made in Hungary'' or ''Foreign''?



You are correct on the make they made thousands of these they were cheap and they came in many variations the newer ones had the scope grove cut in the tube and there not hard to find .

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30 cal pcp 2260
22 cal pcp 2260
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