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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2022 7:05 pm 
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So.....I've had my UMAREX S&W M&P40 for only about 2 months or less now and I've had few issues already.
There's no question UMAREX air guns are cosmetically appealing and work excellently when they work. I also have a "real" S&W M&P40 x .40 caliber pistol, which is the reason I got this UMAREX.
After firing only a few hundred rounds through it one of my mags (I have 2 mags cuz I bought 1 extra) started leaking CO2 badly and even when it might not leak it was making the pistol perform very sluggishly with no power. The other mag works fine. I got no luck contacting UMAREX in the USA. The guy I spoke to was rude, arrogant and condescending on the phone and I got the feeling my calling him was a real PITA to him. Since then I've been told that's normal for UMAREX USA Customer Service, so basically no real "service." Anyway I've sent the mag back to the vendor I bought it from, so time will tell how that turns out. It was quite a different experience than the one I had with Daisy USA recently. I give Daisy 5 stars out of 5 for their helpfulness and excellent Customer Service.
Now there's another issue. See the attached photos. They are of the upper part of the slide of my M&P40 BB pistol.
I also sent these photos to UMAREX in the USA asking for their opinion but considering the very poor service I've gotten from them so far, I'm not expecting much.
This appears to be a metallic, likely stainless steel with adhesive that looks like it is used as a sort of wear shim. You can see it is peeling off at the front and back. Occasionally now when using my M&P40 the slide sticks and I have to manually rack it and it works OK again for a while. I'm thinking the possible reason that the slide occasionally sticks is because of this metallic tape peeling and causing the slide to stick.
This metallic tape looks like something that might need to be checked periodically as part of regular maintenance and occasionally replaced as needed.
I've been Googling and searching online to see if anyone else has had this type of issue but no luck so far. Has anyone here seen this before?
I can find stainless steel tape online through Amazon which might work so I can replace it myself but if anyone else has had an issue like this what was their solution? Can I find a similar material from a gunshop/airgun shop or some other supply store?


Attachments:
M&P40 lq.jpg
M&P40 lq.jpg [ 169.21 KiB | Viewed 383 times ]
20221110_162139_lq.jpg
20221110_162139_lq.jpg [ 169.03 KiB | Viewed 383 times ]
20221110_162043_lq.jpg
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 12, 2022 9:38 pm 
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Location: GTA, ON
How about just remove it?!

Are you sure it's just an adhesive cosmetic tape?! If answer is Yes, I will just remove it... Just in case nothing will cause the issue of the slide again...

_________________
~Plinkers~
XS28M .25 @ 26fpe
HW45 Beast
6mm AW-Custom Z-Killer DE
~Competitors~
FWB300SU
Tau-7/IZH-46M/FWB-65/CP88
~Target~
HW 30s/35e/97k
CZ200s Laminated @ 10fpe
AA ProSport 177 @ 12fpe
HW 40+Extender/Scoped P3/70/75


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:20 am 
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Location: St-Hippolyte, QC
Hi guys ! I also own an M&P 40 and I frquently experience
this problem (slide not getting back). Which is frustrating !
Right after I read Ozzie's post, I stripped mine and took the tape
off. It was seriously 'damaged' back and front. As soon as I
finish my coffe and get out of my pj's, I'll give it a try and post back.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:19 am 
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Location: Montreal area
Just remove it, that's what I did and it is just a protector not to damage the top of the barrel. But still, mine is not working normaly, I have to close the slide many times while shooting. It work' a little better with black BB's.

As for Umarex I try to stay away from that brand, but knowing that the M'n'P 40 is made by KWC (most probably) I'm questionning it :? :? :?

SilentMan... :drinkers:

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To many and not enough.

6mm
Not enough and to many.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:49 am 
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Location: St-Hippolyte, QC
Hi again ! Well, it didn't change nothing... But i think
it's a mag issue... I have 3 mags and they perform differently...
one jams every 4 bb's, gotta push on the slide, the second does'nt lock
back at the fifteenth bb but doesn't jam and the third works super fine !
And all of this with the silver tape removed...


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 1:57 pm 
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Thanks for the feedback and suggestions guys cuz I wan't having any luck yet searching to see if anyone else had this issue.
I'm 100% sure this piece isn't cosmetic because it is inside the top of the slide where no one can see it and in many cases even when field stripping the pistol for cleaning, it could be overlooked.
And I don't want to just remove it yet. I think the pistol might probably work OK without it, but it is there for a purpose, so my preference is to fix it properly. See the attached photo of the slide with the barrel next to it. Notice the wear points on the barrel. These are the friction points where the barrel contacts the inner top of the slide during blowback. I think this metallic strip (likely stainless steel) was a half-ass solution to a problem UMAREX noticed during testing of the finished product when the recognised premature wear of the slide and barrel.
As I said, I sent an email with information and photos to UMAREX but considering their attitude so far, I'm thinking I'll be on my own to find a solution, even though this pistol is only 2 months old and should still be under warranty.
So far I have found two options at hand and one more possibility.
One is that I have some Jig-A-Loo graphite dry lubricant spray that I have used before that seems to work well where there's friction between metal moving parts. It's like a spray paint that dries looking like flat black paint and seems to stay on pretty good and reduce friction and wear.
The other solution is to replace the existing damaged metal strip with new stainless steel tape. I can get this from Amazon. It looks like the damaged piece is 15mm wide. I can get a roll from Amazon that's 1/2" wide (12.7mm) and just under 1mm thick. That should do the job also.
Then also there's stuff like Otis Technology IP-904-A-55 Dry Lubricant which is made for firearms and was originally developed for the United States military for use in the desert.
I recently sold a Daisy Powerline Model 45 pellet pistol I had for over 30 years which I have never had to replace anything on and was like new and still working excellently. From my experience with this UMAREX M&P40 so far I don't expect it to still be around in 30 years. I bought the UMAREX because I also have a real S&W M&P40 and I wanted something close to the real thing that I can practice with in my garage.
Before I try to fix this on my own I'll see what UMAREX and the vendor I got this from can offer for a solution this coming week.


Attachments:
Capture SS Tape.JPG
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20221113_111249_lq.jpg [ 113.29 KiB | Viewed 302 times ]
20221113_103032_lq.jpg
20221113_103032_lq.jpg [ 543.2 KiB | Viewed 302 times ]
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 3:23 pm 
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Location: GTA, ON
I think maybe you can just cut a similar size patch from the pop can, and stick it there?

Adding some lubrication is a must I think. Do you have the moly paste? I think that will stay on for longer and also a great lube we usually use on airguns like the springers... You need something contains more than 70% moly not those from CanTires that have maybe 3 or 5% inside...

_________________
~Plinkers~
XS28M .25 @ 26fpe
HW45 Beast
6mm AW-Custom Z-Killer DE
~Competitors~
FWB300SU
Tau-7/IZH-46M/FWB-65/CP88
~Target~
HW 30s/35e/97k
CZ200s Laminated @ 10fpe
AA ProSport 177 @ 12fpe
HW 40+Extender/Scoped P3/70/75


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 4:58 pm 
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YepYep wrote:
I think maybe you can just cut a similar size patch from the pop can, and stick it there?

Adding some lubrication is a must I think. Do you have the moly paste? I think that will stay on for longer and also a great lube we usually use on airguns like the springers... You need something contains more than 70% moly not those from CanTires that have maybe 3 or 5% inside...


Definitely something to always keep in mind and check regularly after every use. I'm gonna wait and see what kind of feedback I get from the vendor I bought the pistol from, and from UMAREX, but I'm very, very unsatisfied with the attitude from UMAREX. If I can't get a good resolution from UMAREX I'll find my own solution. I have a few good adhesives but I won't be using a pop can. Personally I think applying the Jig-A-Loo graphite coating to the slide where the shim is and to the barrel at the friction points as well as lubrication should do the job. But what pisses me off is that this pistol is basically new, having owned it for just two months, and I should be able to go a lot longer and fire a lot more rounds from it before I have any issues.
I see from other posts here I've been checking that some other guys have also had issues with the S&W M&P40 slides sticking, so anyone with this model should be aware of this and make it a regular maintenance inspection point after every use.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 6:21 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:21 pm
Posts: 531
Location: Ontario
Hi Ozzie21.

I own a M&P 40 that I ordered in September 2018. The last time I used it, the pistol was working fine.

Because I have a large collection it was not used very often and I had only maybe between 5 and 10 CO2 cartridges through it which is less than some of you.

After your post I was a bit curious and I decided to field strip it. At first I had a bit of problem (the slide didn't want to come out) until I watched a YouTube video, then I was able to remove the slide.

Effectively my metal strip looked like yours. The front was lifting a bit and there were some wrinkles at the back. I smoothed it up with my finger and the front part flattened but I could see that the glue underneath the thin sheet of metal is not even and there are some air bubbles.

Attachment:
M&P 40 Metal Shield in Slide.JPG
M&P 40 Metal Shield in Slide.JPG [ 135.49 KiB | Viewed 284 times ]


I will test it tomorrow to see if it will start acting up.

For the mag issue when loading BBs, I made a small metal wire hook embedded in a small square of cardboard and it is a lot easier on the thumb.

Attachment:
Metal Hook for Mag.JPG
Metal Hook for Mag.JPG [ 61.45 KiB | Viewed 284 times ]


I am not sure if what I am experiencing it is helpful or not. It seems that the pistol can work correctly even with some wrinkles in the metal so, is it really the metal strip causing your problem or something else?

Good luck.

R-Gun Pete


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 8:11 pm 
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R-Gun Pete wrote:
Hi Ozzie21.

I own a M&P 40 that I ordered in September 2018. The last time I used it, the pistol was working fine.

Because I have a large collection it was not used very often and I had only maybe between 5 and 10 CO2 cartridges through it which is less than some of you.

After your post I was a bit curious and I decided to field strip it. At first I had a bit of problem (the slide didn't want to come out) until I watched a YouTube video, then I was able to remove the slide.

Effectively my metal strip looked like yours. The front was lifting a bit and there were some wrinkles at the back. I smoothed it up with my finger and the front part flattened but I could see that the glue underneath the thin sheet of metal is not even and there are some air bubbles.

Attachment:
M&P 40 Metal Shield in Slide.JPG


I will test it tomorrow to see if it will start acting up.

For the mag issue when loading BBs, I made a small metal wire hook embedded in a small square of cardboard and it is a lot easier on the thumb.

Attachment:
Metal Hook for Mag.JPG


I am not sure if what I am experiencing it is helpful or not. It seems that the pistol can work correctly even with some wrinkles in the metal so, is it really the metal strip causing your problem or something else?

Good luck.

R-Gun Pete


Yea it's starting to look like this is a common issue with the UMAREX M&P40. I don't know if any other models of the UMAREX BB pistols have the same type of metallic shim or not, but anyone who has a UMAREX M&P40 or any other UMAREX semi-auto should check their pistols.
Comparing your photos and mine it appears the metallic strip in mine is more damaged, at least from the photos, so it may have caused more interference and occasional failure to function properly.
Whenever, and if I can, get resolution from UMAREX on this or whatever I do myself to solve this I will do a follow-up post here reporting with photos.
On the frustration of loading the mags, yes it's a poor design. I also have the UMAREX Beretta M92 A1 and a Crosman PFM520 Night Stalker BB pistol and both of those have mags with notches that lock the spring when you pull it back so it's much easier to load the mags for those. For my M&P40 I just use a nail to push back and compress the spring then I hold my thumb on the flat part of the top of the nail to keep the spring compressed while I load the mag. It's not too bad but UMAREX could have easily manufactured the mags with a notch to hold the spring like the other models.


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PostPosted: Sun Nov 13, 2022 10:28 pm 
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Location: Ontario
If somebody has a brand new unfired M&P 40, it might be a good idea to look if the shim is totally smooth and post a picture of it.

That way it would be an indication that damage occurs with usage, meaning the more the pistol is fired the more wrinkled the metal shim will be.

R-Gun Pete


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 9:34 am 
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Location: GTA, ON
I was a big UX fans as my first airgun here was a MP5 and I still keep it, not shooting it now tho...

And I have / had the 92FS, 92A1, CP88, CP99... Mostly the made in Germany models as they have better quality. Then I bough less BB guns not too long after I immersed into this sport because the BB gun accuracy just too bad...

UX do very well on marketings, the wallpaper, booklets and other stuff comes with the gun in the box really impressed me! So I bought quite a few of their products since the beginning...

But just have to admit that the BB guns are really just toys made by pot metals... So if heavily use or just field strip too many times could just wear it out much sooner...

_________________
~Plinkers~
XS28M .25 @ 26fpe
HW45 Beast
6mm AW-Custom Z-Killer DE
~Competitors~
FWB300SU
Tau-7/IZH-46M/FWB-65/CP88
~Target~
HW 30s/35e/97k
CZ200s Laminated @ 10fpe
AA ProSport 177 @ 12fpe
HW 40+Extender/Scoped P3/70/75


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 12:29 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:21 pm
Posts: 531
Location: Ontario
This morning I tried my M&P 40 and it worked perfectly.

I also re-read all the previous posts and retrospectively I think the assumed stainless steel metal strip is not metal at all. If its purpose is to protect the barrel which is pot metal it should be a softer material. I suspect it is a piece of silver mylar.

It is also mentioned that the slide sticks. Is it on the rearward or forward motion?

The slide is opened by the blowback pressure of the CO2 and I cannot see that the tape would prevent it rearward motion because the surface of the barrel it has to go over is smooth.

If it is sticking on the forward motion I am still not sure that the tape is guilty of it (same reason as before)

The slide not going in battery is more of a BB feeding problem. The air nozzle has a little tab that picks the BB to move it up the ramp and into the breech. That is something to look at.

The other place to check would be the rubber gasket found at the top of the mag and bottom of the nozzle. They have to slide in front of each other for the CO2 to transfer. Maybe they could be checked if they line up properly and don't interfere with each other. They should also be well lubricated.

Troubleshooting airguns can be a frustrating process.

R-Gun Pete


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:51 pm 
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Location: Montreal area
R-Gun Pete wrote:
This morning I tried my M&P 40 and it worked perfectly.

I also re-read all the previous posts and retrospectively I think the assumed stainless steel metal strip is not metal at all. If its purpose is to protect the barrel which is pot metal it should be a softer material. I suspect it is a piece of silver mylar.

It is also mentioned that the slide sticks. Is it on the rearward or forward motion?

The slide is opened by the blowback pressure of the CO2 and I cannot see that the tape would prevent it rearward motion because the surface of the barrel it has to go over is smooth.

If it is sticking on the forward motion I am still not sure that the tape is guilty of it (same reason as before)

The slide not going in battery is more of a BB feeding problem. The air nozzle has a little tab that picks the BB to move it up the ramp and into the breech. That is something to look at.

The other place to check would be the rubber gasket found at the top of the mag and bottom of the nozzle. They have to slide in front of each other for the CO2 to transfer. Maybe they could be checked if they line up properly and don't interfere with each other. They should also be well lubricated.

Troubleshooting airguns can be a frustrating process.

R-Gun Pete

When that air nozzle hit the feeding lip's of the mag it jam's, If releasing the mag the slide moves forward to lock closed or I have to push it forward to close/lock... Tape as no effects :evil:

SilentMan... :drinkers:

_________________
4.5mm
To many and not enough.

6mm
Not enough and to many.


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PostPosted: Mon Nov 14, 2022 7:12 pm 
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R-Gun Pete wrote:
This morning I tried my M&P 40 and it worked perfectly.

I also re-read all the previous posts and retrospectively I think the assumed stainless steel metal strip is not metal at all. If its purpose is to protect the barrel which is pot metal it should be a softer material. I suspect it is a piece of silver mylar.

It is also mentioned that the slide sticks. Is it on the rearward or forward motion?

The slide is opened by the blowback pressure of the CO2 and I cannot see that the tape would prevent it rearward motion because the surface of the barrel it has to go over is smooth.

If it is sticking on the forward motion I am still not sure that the tape is guilty of it (same reason as before)

The slide not going in battery is more of a BB feeding problem. The air nozzle has a little tab that picks the BB to move it up the ramp and into the breech. That is something to look at.

The other place to check would be the rubber gasket found at the top of the mag and bottom of the nozzle. They have to slide in front of each other for the CO2 to transfer. Maybe they could be checked if they line up properly and don't interfere with each other. They should also be well lubricated.

Troubleshooting airguns can be a frustrating process.

R-Gun Pete


So far this issue hasn't been really bad. It's been occasional and it happens when the slide is going back (towards me). It is that action that results in maximum friction between the barrel and the slide. The surface of the barrel it has to go over is not totally smooth. There's a step profile change from the round barrel shape to the square shoulder shape of the rear part of the barrel. This is what causes the metallic shim to peel. See attached photo and note one of the wear points that is visible.
Before I remove this shim completely or do anything further myself I'm gonna wait to see if I get some feedback first from the vendor I bought it from, or from UMAREX (I suspect UMAREX doesn't really GAF based on my previous interactions with their BS "Customer Service").
If I remove this metallic shim completely there might not be any further issue but then I'll probably have accelerated excess wear to both the top part of my slide and to the barrel.
I've got some 0.0038" thick stainless steel adhesive tape coming and I'll compare it to the existing shim characteristics so I could try that with good lubrication and see how it works.
The best solution would probably be to cerakote these parts and be done with it pretty much permanently. There's a half dozen cerakote shops where I live and they do a lot of firearms. I have no idea how pricey that might be. There's also sellers that have home application cerakote kits but I think I'd just get it professionally done.


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