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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2023 9:33 am 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Budget springers --- good output --- accurate enough to achieve great results within 30-50 yards

We have read plenty of examples of the Chinese Crosman B18 variants that fill this category. The Phantom and Optimus are two such examples. The Ruger branded springers are another Chinese rifle that might fill this need. I only tested two Ruger examples and wasn't satisfied with the accuracy in either. Possibly they had a flaw that I couldn't find. Other possibilities would be the Spanish Norica and Cometa springers and the Turkish KRAL springers that are available in Canada. The lower priced models from these manufacturers might fit the category but I'm unfamiliar with any of them. I'm guessing that "budget priced" means around $200 or less. Even if Weihrauch and Diana become available again, they are not in this category unless you find a great deal on a used example.


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PostPosted: Thu May 25, 2023 10:40 am 
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Location: Ontario
TCooper wrote:
Budget springers --- good output --- accurate enough to achieve great results within 30-50 yards

We have read plenty of examples of the Chinese Crosman B18 variants that fill this category. The Phantom and Optimus are two such examples. The Ruger branded springers are another Chinese rifle that might fill this need. I only tested two Ruger examples and wasn't satisfied with the accuracy in either. Possibly they had a flaw that I couldn't find. Other possibilities would be the Spanish Norica and Cometa springers and the Turkish KRAL springers that are available in Canada. The lower priced models from these manufacturers might fit the category but I'm unfamiliar with any of them. I'm guessing that "budget priced" means around $200 or less. Even if Weihrauch and Diana become available again, they are not in this category unless you find a great deal on a used example.


Nice comments, I think I will try some Kral/Norica as well. The best part for budget ones is that I can 3-6 with same price of just one, simply more to play with :mrgreen:

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495fps Springers/CO2/PCP
PAL Rated plinkers and target rifles
Finally get my PAL after 1 year waiting


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 5:07 am 
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Just read Wes got his Beeman shipment delivered and the RS2 in the shipment looks fall into the 'decent budget rifle' group well~ We can check that out~

_________________
~Plinkers~
FX-M3-22 Compact#PP700-Carbine#Diana48-177#XS28M-25@26fpe#HW45 Beast#AW-Custom Z-Killer DE
~Competitors~
FWB300SU#Tau-7#IZH-46M#FWB-65#CP88-C
~Target~
HW 30s/35e/97k/40+Extender/P3+Scope/70#CZ200s Laminated@10fpe#AA ProSport-177@12fpe


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 3:09 pm 
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For now I'm sticking with the Crosman B18 family. This afternoon I took my tuned .177cal Phantom out for some plinking in a sand pit. My shooting buddy brought a bunch of air rifles but spent most of his time with his .22cal Springfield Armory M1A. We started off plinking cans and various gongs/spinners from 20 to 75 yards. Then I noticed my buddy shooting a rock way behind the 75 yard can. He was coming very close to making hits.

We ended up measuring the 125 yards to the rock and moving the 6 1/2" gong out there. I was seated and shoot from a homemade monopod. It took quite a while to figure out the holdover. My Phantom makes 13.4FPE and was sighted for center hits at 20 yards. To connect at 125 yards I used 10 mildots below center. Once I had that figured out I was making quite a few hits on the gong. The can was very challenging but I managed 4 hits. Most can shots were close misses. I would have thought the cheapo Phantom would group 4 feet at 125 yards. Not so. When I am able to shoot again on a calm day I plan to do some group testing on paper to see what this rifle can do at 100-125 yards.


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 3:44 pm 
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What a fun shooting session~ love this kind of activities~

_________________
~Plinkers~
FX-M3-22 Compact#PP700-Carbine#Diana48-177#XS28M-25@26fpe#HW45 Beast#AW-Custom Z-Killer DE
~Competitors~
FWB300SU#Tau-7#IZH-46M#FWB-65#CP88-C
~Target~
HW 30s/35e/97k/40+Extender/P3+Scope/70#CZ200s Laminated@10fpe#AA ProSport-177@12fpe


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 4:52 pm 
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I wasn't aware that my shooting buddy was recording one of my 125 yard shots. He sent me the iPhone video after I got home. I definitely didn't connect on every shot from 125 yards but hits were not rare either. Once I figured out the elevation the hits were possible and the misses were always close. I could hear the misses on the wood backstop.

I would have thought a cheapo Phantom would group about 2 or 3 feet at 125 yards. When I have an opportunity I plan to check group size on paper at 100 and 125 yards. I'll need a calm day for sure.

Tuned .177cal Crosman Phantom
3-9x40AO Leapers/UTG scope
8.64gr H&N FTT pellet at 835fps
Seated position using homemade monopod

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yYW96z-qwI


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PostPosted: Sat May 27, 2023 5:34 pm 
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Location: GTA, ON
TCooper wrote:
Tuned .177cal Crosman Phantom
3-9x40AO Leapers/UTG scope
8.64gr H&N FTT pellet at 835fps
Seated position using homemade monopod

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yYW96z-qwI


[emoji38] [emoji38] nice shot~ and what a long fly to reach 125 yards for that tiny pellet~

_________________
~Plinkers~
FX-M3-22 Compact#PP700-Carbine#Diana48-177#XS28M-25@26fpe#HW45 Beast#AW-Custom Z-Killer DE
~Competitors~
FWB300SU#Tau-7#IZH-46M#FWB-65#CP88-C
~Target~
HW 30s/35e/97k/40+Extender/P3+Scope/70#CZ200s Laminated@10fpe#AA ProSport-177@12fpe


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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2023 8:48 am 
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well placed 8)
lobed shots are always possible ones you know where your fist couple shots land then
adjust your lob accordingly :wink:

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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2023 9:36 am 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Ace wrote:
well placed 8)
lobed shots are always possible ones you know where your fist couple shots land then
adjust your lob accordingly :wink:


Yah, it's amazing that good accuracy is possible with such a loopy trajectory and a cheapo rifle (with no or very low wind). I was sighted in for center hits at 10 metres. For 125 yard hits I held 10 mildots with the scope set at 9X. Apparently one mildot is 3.6" at 100 yards when scope is set to 10X. If my scope was set at 10X then I guess my 125 yard POI would have been 36" below my 10 metre setting. My scope only adjusts to 9X so I think the drop is a bit more, but I'm not sure how much more. I'm not sure if it's right to add 10% to say I had a 40" holdover.


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PostPosted: Sun May 28, 2023 3:07 pm 
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Very nice accuracy! Looks like a fun day! Always great to have someone to shoot with and and a nice private range spot too!

Sent from my SM-A536W using Tapatalk

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 7:43 am 
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Posts: 230
Location: Ontario
TCooper wrote:
We ended up measuring the 125 yards to the rock and moving the 6 1/2" gong out there. I was seated and shoot from a homemade monopod. It took quite a while to figure out the holdover. My Phantom makes 13.4FPE and was sighted for center hits at 20 yards. To connect at 125 yards I used 10 mildots below center. Once I had that figured out I was making quite a few hits on the gong. The can was very challenging but I managed 4 hits. Most can shots were close misses. I would have thought the cheapo Phantom would group 4 feet at 125 yards. Not so. When I am able to shoot again on a calm day I plan to do some group testing on paper to see what this rifle can do at 100-125 yards.


Nice try and very impressive result. :drinkers: :drinkers: :drinkers:
That is what I intended to start this discussion. Cheap guns doesn't mean it shoots worse than expensive ones. The built quality may not as good and it may not last as long as those worth $1000, but the performance is totally OK. Remember the firearms wins the contract to army are always cheap and easy to maintenance ones, it will never been a high end $1000 rifle!

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A Bunch of
495fps Springers/CO2/PCP
PAL Rated plinkers and target rifles
Finally get my PAL after 1 year waiting


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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 8:48 am 
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Joined: Wed Sep 07, 2016 11:04 am
Posts: 1879
Atlas_cn wrote:
Nice try and very impressive result. :drinkers: :drinkers: :drinkers:
That is what I intended to start this discussion. Cheap guns doesn't mean it shoots worse than expensive ones. The built quality may not as good and it may not last as long as those worth $1000, but the performance is totally OK. Remember the firearms wins the contract to army are always cheap and easy to maintenance ones, it will never been a high end $1000 rifle!
In Canada the C7 cost's about $2500 and that's volume pricing. I could get a similar milspec ar-15 for under $2000. The Colt Canada (formally Diemaco) stuff sold to the CAF is very nice kit, and it needs to be. They are thoroughly used and abused.

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PostPosted: Mon May 29, 2023 12:47 pm 
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Location: Ontario, Canada
Atlas_cn wrote:
Nice try and very impressive result. :drinkers: :drinkers: :drinkers:
That is what I intended to start this discussion. Cheap guns doesn't mean it shoots worse than expensive ones. The built quality may not as good and it may not last as long as those worth $1000, but the performance is totally OK. Remember the firearms wins the contract to army are always cheap and easy to maintenance ones, it will never been a high end $1000 rifle!


Exactly! The Optimus/Phantom can often be tuned to shoot quite well. They don't have a choked barrel but I find that the H&N FTT and JSB Exact pellets shoot great in 4.52mm size. These rifles definitely exceed my expectations.

Although they can shoot well, the Chinese made Optimus/Phantom is far from the build quality of a Weihrauch. With these Crosman B18 variants you get a delicate plastic rear sight, plastic front sight with a thick fibre optic element and no insert feature, plastic trigger guard, plastic breech washers, no stock checkering, mediocre bluing, and a trigger that needs some minor work to feel acceptable. I dump the sights and use a scope so that problem doesn't matter to me. Switching out the plastic breech washers for fitted metal is an easy task and costs less than a dollar. Tuning the trigger with a longer adjustment screw and some moly paste is also easy. The piston, the seals and mainspring are all fine quality. I'm finding that the mainsprings actually last a long time. Same with the breech and piston seals. The stock contours are very nice, IMO. You get a good deal for the price. I've seen the Phantoms sell new for $100-$150 and the Optimus is usually a little bit more.

The B18 variants (Gamo copies) are heavily mass produced and lower quality than the HW, Diana and AA. This means you are more likely to get a defective or blemished rifle. Sometimes you can see the filler they use on the stocks to fix up small holes or blemishes and sometimes the stocks have dark spots. They use a thick finish/stain combination in an attempt to cover the blems. The bluing will scratch and wear easier than a highly polished German model with deep bluing. Sometimes the screws can be a lose fit so loctite is needed. They might not be a pretty rifle but they can often be made to shoot quite well and cost a fraction of the high end rifles.


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PostPosted: Tue May 30, 2023 8:19 am 
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Joined: Thu Feb 10, 2022 12:29 pm
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Location: Ontario
TCooper wrote:
Atlas_cn wrote:
Nice try and very impressive result. :drinkers: :drinkers: :drinkers:
That is what I intended to start this discussion. Cheap guns doesn't mean it shoots worse than expensive ones. The built quality may not as good and it may not last as long as those worth $1000, but the performance is totally OK. Remember the firearms wins the contract to army are always cheap and easy to maintenance ones, it will never been a high end $1000 rifle!


Exactly! The Optimus/Phantom can often be tuned to shoot quite well. They don't have a choked barrel but I find that the H&N FTT and JSB Exact pellets shoot great in 4.52mm size. These rifles definitely exceed my expectations.

Although they can shoot well, the Chinese made Optimus/Phantom is far from the build quality of a Weihrauch. With these Crosman B18 variants you get a delicate plastic rear sight, plastic front sight with a thick fibre optic element and no insert feature, plastic trigger guard, plastic breech washers, no stock checkering, mediocre bluing, and a trigger that needs some minor work to feel acceptable. I dump the sights and use a scope so that problem doesn't matter to me. Switching out the plastic breech washers for fitted metal is an easy task and costs less than a dollar. Tuning the trigger with a longer adjustment screw and some moly paste is also easy. The piston, the seals and mainspring are all fine quality. I'm finding that the mainsprings actually last a long time. Same with the breech and piston seals. The stock contours are very nice, IMO. You get a good deal for the price. I've seen the Phantoms sell new for $100-$150 and the Optimus is usually a little bit more.

The B18 variants (Gamo copies) are heavily mass produced and lower quality than the HW, Diana and AA. This means you are more likely to get a defective or blemished rifle. Sometimes you can see the filler they use on the stocks to fix up small holes or blemishes and sometimes the stocks have dark spots. They use a thick finish/stain combination in an attempt to cover the blems. The bluing will scratch and wear easier than a highly polished German model with deep bluing. Sometimes the screws can be a lose fit so loctite is needed. They might not be a pretty rifle but they can often be made to shoot quite well and cost a fraction of the high end rifles.


I'm using Optimus .177 recently, bought from Princess Auto $120 last year on sale as 495fps. And droped in full power kit 1000fps from Scope and Ammo, it shoots Crosman 7.4gr Wadcutter and Pointed about 900-920fps and Benjamin HP 7.9gr about 880fps in average. Haven't done more tune yet but I fill the factory trigger is OK for me--it is longer release but once you get used to the exact release point it actually helped for aiming. Also vibration is little now as I did coated with silicone grease and molly on the entire spring as well as mollyed other parts. And I think I might just stick it after received Crosman 10.5gr pellets ordered. :drinkers:
As tested, I put a 5 pellets group with Benjamin HP and 4 pellets all straight hit the skirt on previous ones--I got one whole and was wondering if there is some flyer that time, until digging them out form the putty. And this gun is just shoot about couple dozen rounds since purchased!!!

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A Bunch of
495fps Springers/CO2/PCP
PAL Rated plinkers and target rifles
Finally get my PAL after 1 year waiting


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PostPosted: Wed May 31, 2023 9:16 pm 
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Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 11335
Location: P.G. B.C.
Here's a newer one, made in Spain - Norica-Omnia:
recoiless spring piston rifle
https://www.airgun101.com/airgun-channe ... -air-rifle

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Daryl


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