Canadian Airgun Forum

Just want to discuss and see if you used cheap springers with good output.If you know any other cheap ones achieve great result within 30-50 yards please share and lets see how many good cheapo ones out there

I am very impressed with my Crosman Phantom, purchased as 495fps version 15 months ago, while I don't have PAL. I already put through 4000 rounds over it, and it is about 440-460 fps with Benjamin .22 HP 14.3 gr the best, as well as good with Crosman .22 HP and many other pellets. I am able to put pellets on tail of the pervious ones within 9 yards, while without any support, and can hit golf ball at 30 yards consistently, with just 4x32 UTG mildot on it.
After I got PAL I placed mid-power spring, gives 600-620fps and it shoots smoother than the weak spring, with better accurate and much less jump. And just about a week ago I changed it to full power NP--took couple days work with help of my workplace colleagues and some tools in the company. as the conversion kit's stop pin hole is not at the right place--about 1/3" more towards to front so I took it apart and bring the back tube to have the pin hole expand bit larger to fit it. Now it shoots 14.3gr at about 720fps in average (not sure why but the NP power plant will give much higher fps the first couple shots if I kept it not shooting for couple days. The very first shot after I installed it happened to be 890fps, while I did put couple silicone chamber lube into air chamber one night before took to range. It smokes the chamber and make really loud noise that time--I feel it almost like a .22lr round that time... Anyway after couple shots it getting stabilized, and perform almost same accuracy if not better--2 pellets head to tail to the previous one at 9 yards, and hit a spoon at 30yards in range consistently. I didn't test it on paper but I am very impressed with that--although it is not cheap anymore with the conversion kit, but it is a good start to learn how to maintaining springer and how to mode it, without risking damaging and losing an expensive one. I will test more on it later on.

The other one I would like to mention is Air Venture Springfield M1A .22cal. This is a big and heavy boy, 10lbs by it self, under-lever, and shoots 14.3gr Crosman HP very accurate straight out the box. It is a very realistic replica and very fun to operate. I didn't get the official scope mount--and it seems unavailable in the market for a while, with just the peep I am also able to hit spoon at 30 yards, which can barely saw it, as well as ducks in a pellet trap at 35 yards, and not even adjust the elevation and windage yet. Maybe I will just stick with the peep The only disadvantage is it is too heavy so I got tried very soon after shoot it stand pose without support. However, the weight is also an advantage, as it is sooo steady while you holding on hand, and very little kick as the other springers I had. It shoots about 710-730fps with the Crosman 14.3gr HP and I will test more different pellets on it later on.
I also had a 495fps optimus .177, also just moded with full power spring, shooting 7.9gr at 960fps, didn't get a chance to further test it yet and will update how it will be later on.
Also just mention it, Beeman QB79(AR2079) is the cheapest PCP with great accuracy. Fun fact is, I got it as NON-PAL rated, and did confirm that with Wes but the rifle does shoots about 580-590fps with 14.3gr. HOWEVER, once I put 18.13/21gr pellet as the very first shot in each session to make it about 480-490fps, and then I put 14.3 gr or even lighter pellets all the time it will never exceed 500fps, just don't know why it happening like that... Wes suggest me to remove washer from the bottle but since the bottle always holding air well, I don't bother to change it, and with PAL I'm completely fine anyway

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A Bunch of
495fps Springers/CO2/PCP
PAL Rated plinkers and target rifles
Finally get my PAL after 1 year waiting

Yep~ heard those names have good reputation somewhere else too~ However didn't have hands on experience on them, yet...

Since the P17 (earlier model) vs the HW40 actually I believe you got what you paid for, not always... Just usually...

And on the other hand, better to be a handy guy and know your stuff so you can have double happiness for paying just one share of money... No matter wood working or mechanic...

And.....


[emoji38]

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~Plinkers~
FX M3-22 Compact#PP700 Carbine#Diana48-177#XS28M-25@26fpe#HW45 Beast#AW-Custom Z-Killer DE
~Competitors~
FWB300SU#Tau-7/IZH-46M/FWB-65/CP88
~Target~
HW 30s/35e/97k#CZ200s Laminated@10fpe#AA ProSport-177@12fpe#HW40+Extender/P3+Scope/70

By the way TCopper shoots the darn thing I would say it's the Crosman Optimus. https://www.airgunforum.ca/forums/topic93265.html

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I have some airguns.

That is impressive for a inexpensive air rifle.

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Best Wishes
Daryl

Had to say Crosman Phantom/Optimus is very good starting rifles, for both shooting and learning DIY. It is so easy to took apaprt and re-assemble. With even the full power 1000fps spring, I can put it by myself without any extra tools and not even need spring compressor, just put a piece wood on desk and make the tube vertical, use your weight to push it down, hold with one hand and put the stop pin with another. It gives you a good idea how springers works and where those parts are. This is the model anyone can DIY tuning, and they are cheap as well as parts widely available.

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A Bunch of
495fps Springers/CO2/PCP
PAL Rated plinkers and target rifles
Finally get my PAL after 1 year waiting

My Weihrauch HW30S is a joy to shoot.
I regularly print 1- hole groups at 25 yards, sitting FT position, using H&N FTT.
The Quality and accuracy is hard to beat for only $325 (CAF store).

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Air Arms HFT 500
FX Streamline laminate .22
Benjamin Discovery .22 (tuned)
Weihrauch HW30S .177
Weihrauch HW30 MK1 .177
Weihrauch HW40
Beeman P17
Crosman 22xx carbine (tuned)
Princess Auto Super Springer Deluxe ($34.99)

Yes I'm also looking for a nice springer and a nice PCP but not too expensive to add my collection and I think thats it! But I prefer to have .22/.25cal as it can use for hunting and better in longer range accuracy as well. I am looking at light-moderate used ones so can save some $$. Maybe FX Maverick which I heard can shoot slugs better, as well as AA Condor, which is cheaper and also good in 100/200 yards

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A Bunch of
495fps Springers/CO2/PCP
PAL Rated plinkers and target rifles
Finally get my PAL after 1 year waiting

I do not think these are available any more i still see them listed in a few place the Slavia 630 & 631 were buy far the best of the Budget air guns ..

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VE7SHM//VE7ZJ

Moderator

https://scrapc21.ca/

The Crosman B18 platform (Gamo copy) is a cheap springer with good output. It was a success even before Crosman got the exclusive on this design over 20 years ago. The Chinese B18 was once imported into the USA by an Xisico dealer and sales were doing well. Crosman saw the opportunity and grabbed a contract so we no longer see the unbranded examples over here.

The full power B18 often shoots well out-of-the-box but in .177cal it's a bit overpowered for the light rifle weight. My full power .177 was doing 960fps with 7.9gr but recoil and noise was nasty. Shortening the spring spacer to give 750-800fps makes it a sweet shooter with a weight that's not much more than the wonderful HW30S. With the two common piston lengths, the two common Crosman springs and spacer adjustments, you can adjust the .177cal velocity from between 580fps to 960fps.

The B18 benefits from the typical lube tune, piston sleeve, spring end polishing, breech washer upgrade, and trigger tune. Some examples have poor bores and crowns that benefit from sanding/lapping. I have two with good bores and two that needed some attention. When tuned for smoothness it's not uncommon for a B18 to group 1.5" or a bit less at 50 yards (5 shot groups).

The Snowpeak WF-600 (B3) underlever can also be made into a nice shooting mid-range springer. They usually need some work to get them shooting best.

Crosman and good shooting springers DO not go together
Had more than my fair share that were crap

My four .177cal Crosman B18 rifles are pellet finicky. They don't do well with the Crosman HP pellets or any sloppy fitting pellets or pellets with inconsistent head diameters. But they do like the 4.52mm JSB Exact and 4.52mm H&N FTT domes. These fat pellets are a nice press fit at the breech and that seems to improve accuracy quite a bit. A friend picked up a couple of .177 Optimus rifles a few months ago and his also like the 4.52mm H&N FTT. Forum member Ricksplace also has a .177 Crosman B18 (Phantom) that drives tacks at 20 yards.

topic75123.html

My 2c. If you like to tinker, buy a budget Springer. If you want to shoot, skip the budget plinker and by a decent Springer. At 2x the price it will shoot 10x better, always and forever.

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Age quod Agis, et semper ubi sub ubi.

The Phantom Todd mentions is actually a Fury (phantom without sights). It shoots 8.18gr at 880 with a 0.75" reduction in preload. Todd shot the best group with it measuring 0.172" ctc at 20 yards.
It has a thorough tune and no machined parts. I simply cut the oem spacer in half. After many thousand (20K?) shots, velocities started to drop below 800 fps. I thought the spring must be broken. Nope. Just got weary. New spring (third one) and a new piston seal and it's back to normal.
The two B3s I have shoot almost as well, but needed many machined parts. With 7.2gr pellets, the detuned slow spring B3-3 shoots 640, the B3-1 with stock spring shoots 790. Both will do well under .5" at 20 meters.

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Theory is when you know how something works, but it doesn't.
Practice is when something works, but you don't know why.
In my shop, Theory and Practice are combined!
Nothing works and I don't know why.

Two lathes and too many projects

Decent springer is always good, but it is pricey. As well as it is too risky to do DIY tuning if you are new to it. So a cheap springer always the best option for new and even serious shooters. You are free to do whatever on it--tearing apart, custom molding like drilling holes, etc and you will be fine even if screwed it up as replacement cost is low and parts easy to get, and you got practiced and ready for doing it on good guns. Also. once it is tuned properly --You may get very similar outcome on a $200 springer compare to a $1000 springer within 20-40 yards, which is the range most of us shooting at.

I used to read a lot blogs for different springers at PyramydAir website. The decent air gunsmith/tester Tom (BB Pelleter) agrees some budget springers have fairly good performance even compare to the expensive ones, and he was surprised finding out that too.

Moreover, if I have an expensive HW or TX (plan to get one once good deals coming), I will enjoy shooting it but not use them too often to pro-long its lifespan (I put over 4000 rounds on Phantom 495fps spring within 10 months, shooting little less now is because I got my PAL and I have 10 different guns to use but still use it most frequently--and it is the one I brought to woods hunting last year and planned this year as well. I don't think I will use an expensive springer in the same way) --a simple, cheap and good performing one can just save a lot tear and wear.

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A Bunch of
495fps Springers/CO2/PCP
PAL Rated plinkers and target rifles
Finally get my PAL after 1 year waiting

Yep~ That's quite true!

I done exactly the same with my P17 (hmm... Actually a completely different case because the P17 is a 'plastic pumper' rather than a steel springer... [emoji38]). And then I noticed another thing is: it depends...

A decent springer or say a springer, a break barrel, is just a break barrel... Nothing can be more complicated and better design... So a decent springer may only means it has better material, better craftsmanship, better details... Sometimes 'better' price also reflecting where it comes from (salary in Germany is much much higher than in China, right?)

So it depends on your budget too. I would say get the best one your budget could offer at the time you want it...

I bought the P17 first, then I very liked this SSP design and then bought the HW40 soon after... I learned everything and opened up to repair or tune the P17 maybe every 300/500 shots until it really failed again and I was tired to opened it up again after a year or two year I don't remember... The last issue should be on the valve, not just the seal (which had been replaced in the time before) and it still had a strange leak every a few shots and became inconsistent...

On the other hand... The HW40 I only opened it once when it came home for a deep clean and relube... About 5 years so far, I shot it more than the P17 and I don't have anything need to work... Just a few drops of oil on piston as mentioned on the manual as needed... What I learned from the P17, I forgot them all already... And I also got an older generation P3 from Mr. Marvin when I saw it on his website.... Same, nothing need to worry or need to put your hands on it...

I became lazier and lazier... I don't want to work on my guns but only want to enjoy shooting them... So I don't want to buy the budget gun any more. Of course, actually a decent one not always means it will be expensive... Some times expensive one you also need to do something before making it a decent one~

For example, I truly think my XS28 Magnum from killercrow is a budget decent one~ a well tuned and equipped 26fpe break barrel magnum power smooth shooting springer for a very friendly price.... [emoji38]

_________________
~Plinkers~
FX M3-22 Compact#PP700 Carbine#Diana48-177#XS28M-25@26fpe#HW45 Beast#AW-Custom Z-Killer DE
~Competitors~
FWB300SU#Tau-7/IZH-46M/FWB-65/CP88
~Target~
HW 30s/35e/97k#CZ200s Laminated@10fpe#AA ProSport-177@12fpe#HW40+Extender/P3+Scope/70