Canadian Airgun Forum

Let me start by saying that i recently ordered part thru Gravel Agency in order to use winter time - or downtime - as a maintenance and tune up opportunity. That being said, i am obviously not in any sort of rush, there is no urgency in anything at the moment being some sort of a dormant period for me as far as enjoying "my" sport of choice.

My question isn't so much about expecting more for my dollars than having a basically neutral shopping experience (or try substituting the word for contract if you feel like it) when following steps dictated by the process any which company chooses to do business under or at.

Again... recently ordered from Gravel... granted on the worst day of the year (december 25th) for any kind of expectation other than shipping should normally resume after the "holydays". Even if it wasn't mentionned anywhere (to my knowledge) that the company would be up in the clouds for the period, assuming a break of activities was expected for any retailer not directly benefiting from the overspending frenzy that such time of year brings. I mean to say, i get it, things will be delayed and that's just the way any such cookie will crumble.

After getting the usual and automated success story of back to back emails about registration, confirmation, order, order confirmation, payment, payment confirmation and maybe even some junk opportunistic self promotion about whatever i didn't read corporate stuff... DEAD SILENCE.

Parts i ordered were, for all i was made aware of by their online litter store, all stock but one single item; a small oring-type thing one should expect to receive taped to a postcard without having any fear of it being damaged. I say this because... Well as you probably figured out, i have received but only radio silence from the company. I expected at least something to either update me on any delays relating to my order, any sort of explanation as to why such would be expected for back ordered items, at least something that could potentially explain how sorry they feel to be postponing shipping in-stock parts on the count of being ridiculously too cheap to split the order by stock status, ship whatever they can proving good faith at the same time and then making good on our contract by sending the remainder (remember, one o-ring, in my case) of the promised goods once the rooster's sac was replenished.

I get it. I can be WAY TOO CHEAP in an outer wordly fashion. I do believe it is sometimes both/either necessary or desired to delay shipping while waiting for backordered items to show up - for whatever articulated reason and as long as it is mutually 'agreed upon'. There would be no point in sending tires to a customer who ordered tires on rims while waiting for backordered rims to materialize as it wouldn't help the customer in the slightest all things considered. Wouldnt make sense i firmly think but for good measure, any self respecting _insert_whatever_here_ should take the customer's pulse on his order status by proactively updating them on the current 'issue' you face and see if they view the situation differently. Maybe they want the darn tires without the matching rims cause they have rubber fetish or better yet, need to stage a video shoot for their unpopular social media venture and they would look soooo great in the background - not to mention also helping immensly to disguise that unsightly, boxy chest freezer they can't seem to find any other space for. Who knows. At least you engaged into letting them know that you value their business and are willing to go 'some distance' to fulfill your promise (again, the contract).

I'm trying to make this somewhat fun to write for myself while hoping someone gets a mini kick out of my excellent humor but in all seriousness...

What are your experiences with Gravel in general? Did the good arrive in a reasonable amount of time? Should i fear being called an entitled, privileged white nazi boy for expecting to at least be in the loop about my contractual interests?

Am i expecting too much from what i consider to be the only approved parts distributor for a major brand in the whole 'a mare usque ad mare'? Let me know. Hanv,'t i made it painfully obvious this is of extreme urgency!?

Take care, thank you and best whishes to y'allz (i never use this word, feels odd to type it, let alone adding a Z at the end)

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Springers, lead... and time!

You sir are "WAY TOO CHEAP".....

I'm going to go off topic, kinda off topic but not really. I will update my post when my second item gets refunded to my wife's credit card. Then I will update to include the online slimy vendor.

Online shopping is the best thing since sliced bread until all the brick and mortar stores are all gone. Here is my wife's story.....She felt the need to replace our two wall hanging fireplace lights and found a dandy set online and IN STOCK!
She orders BOTH LIGHTS IN STOCK, waits 6 days and sees both items had FedEx tags but were not picked up yet. She waits another two days then goes online to chat with the AI Bot. The bot tells her "sorry, your lights are on back order and items won't be in stock again till late May sometime". My wife receives a return card and proceeds to get the refund.
Next day, she gets an updated email stating items are too late for a refund as items have been shipped and on the way.
NICE, wife is happy her gotta have it lights to change the decor are on the way.

Two weeks later, shipment showed up, opened the box and only ONE LIGHT was shipped. Back to online to chat with the AI Bot. They refund her money for the MISSING LIGHT then sends a return slip for the useless other light we have and can't use. Return slip states, we are to return light shipped on MY DIME, with TRACKING #, INSURED, and if item is damaged WE ARE RESPONSIBLE.

She replies to the email and is blocked/ghosted......Back to chatting with the AI Bot numerous times with "an agent will contact you shortly" bs and receive more emails that blocks us from contacting them.

The biggest issue with online shopping is the involvement of second and third online agencies needed to supply the order. These agencies never see or touch your order, everything is "drop shipped" from anywhere in the world.

My wife and I will pay TOP DOLLAR for items (in good faith) we want or gotta have and in return we expect to not be jacked around....Put me also in the "WAY TOO CHEAP" file as well.....I guess!!!

This is the state-of-the-art. I have the same experience buying a Diana rifle from Bullseye North located in London, ON. It breaks 4 shots after taking out of the box, and the vendor just referred me to Blue Line Solutions, Vancouver BC, for "warranty service". Blue Line states, shipping of any rifle/parts under warranty is on the customer's dime. In any event, none of Bullseye, BLS or Diana.de (I have reached out to all 3) have offed to do anything for me, and it seems even if they did, it would be at my cost to get a working rifle. Are "we" too cheap.... no.
For oldfart, he is in a different situation, but also affected by the third-party online-scam disinterest. The problem he has does not originate from him but from Gravel. One can understand the on-line vendor point of view, they are tring to make a profit, and offer "free" shipping over $50 spent which cuts into profit, so they want to ship everything at once and will delay until all items are ready to ship. In a sense I don't blame them, it is logical (think logistics as applied to supply line). And also there probably is no human involved, just some AI algorithm not programmed to feel oldfart's pain.

To oldfart, since the order is not yet shipped, can you just modify it to remove the O-ring and get the other items? Or does the O-ring tip the scales in your favour (ie just over $50 for free shipping)?

On-line shopping has advantages and disadvantages. And it's a generational thing - my kids have no issues with it it's there normal. We remember the days before internet and no shopping on Sundays or boxing-day. And days when customer service involved looking the store owner in the eye and saying, it's bust can you fix it ?- and getting an apology and a solution on the spot. Those were the days my friend, but they have come to an end.

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Iacio, ergo sum

I have ordered from Gravell a couple times. Always received promptly.
I have no idea what systems they use, but many companies are struggling to try meet the "Amazon experience" where millions of products can be at your door tomorrow.
Some have managed to implement a website that takes the order but then switch to more old fashioned processes with many more human powered steps and where something goes off the "happy path" it requires lots of effort to get the computer driven and manual processes in synch again.
I agree with the OP that this is a poor experience and a communication from the vendor could have easily solved it.
Hopefully you get your parts soon and get back to tinkering and plinking instead of comedy writing!
Rob27

Order came to just under 100$ and i did pay full shipping - i'm not aware of places like Gravel who benefit from what is essentially a monopoly offering any type of deals on shipping. It wouldn't fit the capitalistic agenda to offer free shipping or discounts when there is no competitors and parts MUST come from them.

I was thinking, a bit after posting... i would have been worked up even more if i had choosen the more expensive, expedited shipping method. Shipping would be faster thats true, only that starts after who knows how long before the package crossed the threshold.

I'm not aware, again, of any other ways to be able to order the parts for Canadians anyways. Also... there is no brick and mortar location for them i believe so casual, in store shopping isn't an option.

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Springers, lead... and time!

My bad, you're not the only old fart on here- my mind went to Crosman.ca who have the free shipping at $50.
https://crosman.ca/cen/replacement-parts-oem.html

Of course Gravel Agency is just another 3rd party joker dealing in all kinds of makes and models. They just drop ship parts from Crosman.

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Iacio, ergo sum

I might have gotten confused about Gravel somehow - maybe it comes from a faulty memory chip or a corrypted bios update - but i guess i was convinced they had monopoly in Canada and that we couldn't order straight from Crosman and had to absolutely use Gravel Agency as the only distributor...

I believe i remember being redirected at some point to Gravel's site from the Crosman official site.
Also, it doesn't take any kind of deep research in order to figure out that both Crosman.ca and store.gravelagency.com are essentially running the same exact web platform. The majority of generic pages such as 'shipping terms' are almost a word to word copy and only some identifying (branding) text and other specific infos differ from one page to another.
The whole everything is the same so i must have figured that Gravel were also in charge of crosman.ca as a way to potentially double the web hits opportunities...

Worst is that now i see i took the least affordable options of the two available.I now hope i can cancel the 'processing' order i have with Gravel and that parts i need are available.

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Springers, lead... and time!

Almost at a month's time from having ordered my parts with absolutely no communication from the seller and a website that shows "processing" as for order status... I will keep updating this thread upon any development.

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Springers, lead... and time!

Dealing with these online 3rd party AI Bots is exhausting but the wife kept at it until they gave the word they have refunded all our money and we were asked to DONATE the single light as it wasn't worth it for them to pay the shipping charges etc.

What a "train wreck"! Can this online shopping model continue as is or is change coming? Keep at it oldfart and good luck.....

I’m certainly unaware of the Gravel myself but thanks to members here, I’ll do my best to avoid them. Another Great reason we must support those who truly support us, it will increase their purchasing power in time.

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Steoger XP4 .177
Hatsan AT44MW-10 .177
Daisy 953S .177
Artemis CR600W .177
Diana Stormrider .177
Seneca Dragonfly MK2 .177

"you win some, you lose some".
Have dealt with Gravel for warranty repair. Basically I had to post my rife to them on my dime, and they sent me a replacement.. cost to get warranty service = price of postage $35 many years ago; but at least they responded right away. My $250 gun ended up costing $285, not really a big deal. Not so with Blue Line Solutions, who has still not responded to my request for warranty service on my brand new Diana. So, OP's experience with Gravel is sign of the times.
Oldfart should cancel his order with Gravel. Hopefully he paid by CC, in which case call CC company and cancel the payment as well. Then reorder just the in-stock items from Crosman.ca. Gravel doesn't deserve his business. And we have been warned... same goes for BLS, if you buy a Diana be aware there is no guarantee of after sale service unless you buy from a business willing to go to bat for you.

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Iacio, ergo sum

Honestly these company issues are the big reason I shot snowpeaks simple rifles, as most small parts I can either make, have made for me or deal with some excellent service from known suppliers. And for some reason I don’t see things getting better anytime soon. Best way to protest against terrible service is not to deal with them, let them go broke.

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Steoger XP4 .177
Hatsan AT44MW-10 .177
Daisy 953S .177
Artemis CR600W .177
Diana Stormrider .177
Seneca Dragonfly MK2 .177

So... about crosman.ca and Gravel Agency...

When one looks at both websites, it's CLEAR they are using the same platform (Magento). Not only as far as style/templating but even down to email addresses format used for contacting them. Per example, Customer Service Relation for both is csr@website.com

Not only is the crosman.ca website similar to Gravel, it actually is the same, styled differently. One can easily check the source code of a page and find links containing 'gravel' as template as per the following image


Also, after checking my credit card billing from my order at Gravel, i noticed the company that processed my paiment is called Distrilogistic Canada. A quick google search sends us right back to crosman.ca website, direct to the terms of service page where the company name is listed several times -> https://crosman.ca/cen/terms_and_conditions

Gravel terms and condition page is almost identical but doesnt print the same name at the same spots.

I think Gravel owns crosman.ca (the website, not the crosman company) and has monopoly on parts accross Canada.... whish they would do tue same shipping 'deal' anysays.

Figured i would tell my findings since it seems we are to be thinking of both companies as separate entities while it doesnt seem to be the case upon closer inspection...

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Springers, lead... and time!

Sounds to me like some dirty business practices maybe at play. I guess we need ignore crosman products for awhile until they get the hint. If crosman USA wants to do business here in Canada maybe allow our four main airgun dealers to deal with them directly. I personally gave up on crosman years ago, hoping they would start making affordable guns with less plastics.

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Steoger XP4 .177
Hatsan AT44MW-10 .177
Daisy 953S .177
Artemis CR600W .177
Diana Stormrider .177
Seneca Dragonfly MK2 .177

Well Sir, Oldfart... there you have it.
There is NO actual Crosman Canada entity irrespective of the crosman.ca website (web store?).
In fact Gravel Agency is 'the' single authorized importer and exclusive distributor of the 'Crosman' brand of airsoft and airguns in Canada.
Distrilogistic Canada is a subsiduary of Gravel Agency. It's purpose is to manage and operate a 'retail webstore' set-up to sell and ship Crosman branded products (parts and boxed airguns not requiring a PAL) under the "crosman.ca' otherwise Crosman Canada website. Note here that the website is almost identical in appearance to the Crosman USA website.
To my knowledge Gravel Agency now only entertains contacts and dealings with their direct customers ie. 'retailers' that carry and sell primarily FIREARMS from manufacturers represented by Gravel Agency in Canada. Many of these firearm retailers (hunting & fishing sport stores) may also offer and sell 'Crosman' airguns sourced from Gravel.

Maybe give a call to the number found on the crosman.ca webstore (which will get you Distrilogistic) and inquire as to 'when' the little O'ring you're waiting for will be available ?
Just saying.

Bonne chance!

Hawk-i

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Daystate Huntsman Regal XL .25
AA S510xs Carbine .22
Weihrauch HW77 SE .22
KRAL Puncher .177
CZ-200S lam. .177
Weihrauch HW50S Stl
Cometa Fusion .22
HatsanAT44&95 .22
FAS 6004T
Weihrauch HW44 .22
'HAVE GUN. WILL SHOOT'