Canadian Airgun Forum

The #1 Community for Airguns in Canada!
It is currently Mon Dec 06, 2021 9:55 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours


The Canadian Airgun Forums are a place for people to discuss and learn about airguns and the airgunning sport in Canada. There are lots of discussions about airguns, airgun accessories, reviews, modification and repair information, airgun events, field target and free classifieds!

 

You need to register before you can post: click the register link to proceed. Before you register, please read the forum rules. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own pictures, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free! To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.






Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:09 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:36 pm
Posts: 12
To me, some spring piston guns are best in.177 and others are better in.22. Some can even handle .25 pretty well.
What I’ve kind of come up with is that magnum springers need .22 to work best and smaller rifles do best with .177.
To me, somewhere around 700-800 FPS is a real sweet spot for accuracy and power. So, if a gun is doing 950-1000+ FPS in .177, it would do much better in .22. @ 750 fps. And conversely, if a gun is doing 450-550 in .22, it would be much better in .177. @700-800 fps.
So, guns like HW30 or HW35 are better in.177 and guns like HW80, HW95, Diana 34 and 350 etc are much better suited to .22 caliber.
It seems to me that pellets like velocities in the 650-850 FPS range so I always try to select a rifle that I know will fall into those parameters when making a buying decision. Or I try to tune them to shoot at those velocities if they are too far over or under that threshold. I kind of go for 10-12 foot pounds in.177 and 14-16 foot pounds in.22.
What are your thoughts and opinions about this? Do you love super high velocity regardless of caliber? Or do you like going with .22 cal sub 495 FPS for non-pal rated guns?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 3:35 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 22, 2010 1:17 pm
Posts: 2902
Location: Kingston, ON
Arlo wrote:
To me, some spring piston guns are best in.177 and others are better in.22. Some can even handle .25 pretty well.
What I’ve kind of come up with is that magnum springers need .22 to work best and smaller rifles do best with .177.
To me, somewhere around 700-800 FPS is a real sweet spot for accuracy and power. So, if a gun is doing 950-1000+ FPS in .177, it would do much better in .22. @ 750 fps. And conversely, if a gun is doing 450-550 in .22, it would be much better in .177. @700-800 fps.
So, guns like HW30 or HW35 are better in.177 and guns like HW80, HW95, Diana 34 and 350 etc are much better suited to .22 caliber.
It seems to me that pellets like velocities in the 650-850 FPS range so I always try to select a rifle that I know will fall into those parameters when making a buying decision. Or I try to tune them to shoot at those velocities if they are too far over or under that threshold. I kind of go for 10-12 foot pounds in.177 and 14-16 foot pounds in.22.
What are your thoughts and opinions about this? Do you love super high velocity regardless of caliber? Or do you like going with .22 cal sub 495 FPS for non-pal rated guns?

Some years ago I believe it was Bob Sterne, who did some experiments to show what velocity suited each calibre. IIRC the .177 has a sweet spot around 900 fps and the .22 a bit below that around 800 fps. I'm to lazy to dig up the old posts buts it here archived somewhere on this and other Forums. For non-PAL rifles I definitely prefer .22 because of 2 reasons: 1. you get the max FPE allowable, and 2. I prefer handling the bigger pellets. I've had .25 cal 495 fps rifle as well - it was just too expensive to feed it and the PLINK although very satisfying lost it's charm after a tin of expensive pellets, back to .22 for me and there I'm staying.
All the best, :drinkers:

_________________

Duke ))))----//----------==


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 5:35 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:36 pm
Posts: 12
Yes if I was only using non pal guns I’d pretty much always take the 22 as it will allow much higher energy for sure. I do have a couple .177 rifles that shoot @850-900 FPS and they are very nice. But if I had the choice, I’d prefer them to be .22. I also have a couple .22 that shoot @600fps that I think would have done much better as .177 guns. Regardless, all of them are fun and they all have their place. Thanks for the reply!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 7:14 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 8165
Location: P.G. B.C.
The HW95, same as the HW98 I believe except for the tube over the barrel on the 98 is a mid 600fps kind of rifle, with normal pellets - 18gr. This makes it a
15fpe rifle. If in .177 cal. that model will run in the 900fps range, which is perfect, at least that is what my HW97 "Says" at that speed, also 14.5 to 15fpe.
The higher powered "magnum" type rifles, I must agree with you, except if the .177 actually likes the heavier pellets available in that size, then perhaps the
less expensive pellets have a place in the "magnum" variety of air rifles, like the HW80. I would like to try a .22 bl. in mine, though, just to see if there is that
advantage in accuracy.

_________________
Best Wishes
Daryl


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Nov 15, 2021 10:13 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:36 pm
Posts: 12
I have an HW95 in .22 and it shoots beautifully at @740 with 14-15 grain pellets. Somewhere @ 14-15 foot pounds. I really like it.
I also have a Diana 350 magnum and have both .177 and .22 barrels for it. It does like heavy .177 pellets but shoots a bit harshly and groups poorly. Even after several different types of tuning. With the .22 barrel, it shoots much nicer and groups far better as well. It is a hold sensitive rifle at the best of times. It would really do well with a .25 barrel in all honesty.
I also have HW 35 .177 and I think that is about perfect at @800 fps with a 8.5 grain pellet.
Wouldn’t want that in .22 (but I’d take one if anyone has one they don’t want lol).
My Diana 34 is .177. And it is almost too powerful for that caliber in my opinion. It smokes along at 900+ fps with 8.5 grain pellets. Almost too fast! That is an example of a gun that would be better in .22 in my opinion. However, it groups extremely well and shoots nicely so I roll with it. I like it a lot more than my 350. I just keep that around to shoot once in a while to remind myself what a harsh gun feels like lol.
It is cool to hear what others think about this topic. Thanks again for your reply!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 8:43 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 8165
Location: P.G. B.C.
My HW97, that is soooooo accurate in .177, shoots:
Crossman HP 7.93gr. at 895fps - 14.1fpe
JSB 8.44gr. 4.51mm at 872fps - 14.25fpe

My HW98 in .22, put out:
Crossman 14.43gr. at 680fps for 14.8fpe
H&N Barra 19.09gr. at 603fps for 15.4fpe

My Artemis PP700SP did 408fps with 21.3gr. RN Mach for 7.9fpe

_________________
Best Wishes
Daryl


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 9:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Oct 23, 2021 10:36 pm
Posts: 12
Those are nice looking numbers for your rifles. Is your HW97 your favorite? Of all my spring guns, I think I prefer my HW rifles over the others. Really, I like all of them but man it’s hard to outdo a Weihrauch.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Nov 16, 2021 10:46 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 8165
Location: P.G. B.C.
Well, I sold my HW98 and bought another HW97, this one in .22, so - yes.
My HW's. Top one was a Blackline as purchased. I bought the stock from a local fellow who shots a 97
for indoor silhouette during the winter. As neither of his powder sil. rifles were thumbhole, he restocked
with a standard stock and sold me the TH. I really like the stock and it changed nothing for me in the way
the rifle shoots. 5-sghot groups at 20 yards oft times run around .2" centre to centre - sometimes much smaller.
The bottom left target, 30 meters? - shot with Hades pellets - end of forend rest on the sand bag and no rear bag.
The 5-shot group is just .006" over 1/4" C to C, at .256". The target is marked .456 - .020" as the .22pellets were
making a .020" hole in the paper. Many people measure out side to outside, then subtract the full calibre. I usually
pick a hole that is by itself in the same paper and backstop and measure the actual hole size. Measured the "normal"
way, the group would be .254".


Attachments:
IMG_2911.jpg
IMG_2911.jpg [ 205.46 KiB | Viewed 265 times ]
HW 97s resized2.jpg
HW 97s resized2.jpg [ 428.44 KiB | Viewed 265 times ]

_________________
Best Wishes
Daryl
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 6:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Sep 14, 2005 11:28 pm
Posts: 289
Location: Southern Ontario
Arlo wrote:
To me, some spring piston guns are best in.177 and others are better in.22. Some can even handle .25 pretty well.
What I’ve kind of come up with is that magnum springers need .22 to work best and smaller rifles do best with .177.
To me, somewhere around 700-800 FPS is a real sweet spot for accuracy and power. So, if a gun is doing 950-1000+ FPS in .177, it would do much better in .22. @ 750 fps. And conversely, if a gun is doing 450-550 in .22, it would be much better in .177. @700-800 fps.
So, guns like HW30 or HW35 are better in.177 and guns like HW80, HW95, Diana 34 and 350 etc are much better suited to .22 caliber.
It seems to me that pellets like velocities in the 650-850 FPS range so I always try to select a rifle that I know will fall into those parameters when making a buying decision. Or I try to tune them to shoot at those velocities if they are too far over or under that threshold. I kind of go for 10-12 foot pounds in.177 and 14-16 foot pounds in.22.
What are your thoughts and opinions about this? Do you love super high velocity regardless of caliber? Or do you like going with .22 cal sub 495 FPS for non-pal rated guns?


I've been doing this for almost 60 years. In my experience .177 springers are best between 600 and 750 fps ( depends on the gun). Highly tuned .177 springers can be OK at up to 900 fps, but it is not really necessary. I have a Beeman R9, circa 1995 with a Maccari Tarantula kit along with a Venom piston seal that shoots around 900 fps with JSB Exacts. It shoots very, very nice, but, for the most part, in my view, it is an anomaly. I prefer .177 springers around 700 to 750 fps, or less ( 8.4 gr pellets ), like a well tuned Diana 280 or a Slavia 634. And I have given up on .22 springers. They do not make enough additional power to be worthwhile IMO. I believe .177 is where springers excel. If more power is needed, and FAR better functional accuracy, then a PCP in .22 is the road to take ... IMO. As a side note, virtually all round nose diablo pellets do best between 850 and 885 fps. More than that and they invariably lose stability and can spiral down range.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon May 06, 2019 4:07 pm
Posts: 518
A heavy pellet will always handle high velocitys the best for .22 cal and up .177 is really to light to handle high velocity without corkscrewing

Domed pellets are the best most "aero dynamic" and are usualy most accurate....slugs are more accurate then pellets...


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 7:57 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:29 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Calgary
I shoot my Nitro piston Trail XL and I am not sure of the speeds (No Chronograph Yet), 5.5 heavy pellets, I think 19.3gr, it seems to be very accurate out to 75meters so far as I am the deciding accuracy problem. My Brother has a Pal rated Stoeger 4.5mm and again not sure of pellet speed also nitro piston. He was adamant about shooting light weight alloy pellets but there was no accuracy at all, set him up with crosman 4.5, 14.3gr, and it settled the gun down so at least he could hit his targets. I am bit of a accuracy nut case as I shoot 22lr out to 150meters and like to get the best group possible, my goal with shooting for me is accuracy and I am about to grab a variety of different pellets 5.5 all different grains and try a match process for the best for my rifle. I really think my bank account will take a hit but those 5.5 Weihrauch 97 rifles look real sweet.
I also like the larger pellet size for my old-fart fingers, much easier to handle.
Brad


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:23 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 8165
Location: P.G. B.C.
Hi Brad.
I really like the HW97 platform. They are beefy, but the weight did not hurt at all when using my .177 on gophers. I shot close to or over
200 of them in 2 1/2 hours - might have been 3 hours. It was pretty steady shooting.
I think the best of the .22's would be the blue laminate. Oh Yeah!
Here's my .22 97 on the 60 meter pigs. I used the 18.71gr. Barracuda Hunter HP's on the pigs. They weren't quite as accurate as the
Hadey's but I figured them might be better on pigs. LOL


Attachments:
IMG_2910.jpg
IMG_2910.jpg [ 407.08 KiB | Viewed 212 times ]
IMG_2908.JPG
IMG_2908.JPG [ 469.14 KiB | Viewed 212 times ]

_________________
Best Wishes
Daryl
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:34 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 8165
Location: P.G. B.C.
here is some 20 yard shooting with my HW97 in .177 at over 14fpe.
There are a variety of pellets shown and all are 5 shot groups, or more.
The green tin JSB Cometa 4.51's at 8.44 gr. were the winners with .119" and .157" groups.
The top target was shot with 4.51mm Cometa as well as 8gr. Predator pellets. Some 10 shot groups with
the Cometa pellets on the left side.


Attachments:
17 Meters.JPG
17 Meters.JPG [ 473.52 KiB | Viewed 211 times ]
HW97 20 yards.jpg
HW97 20 yards.jpg [ 65.5 KiB | Viewed 211 times ]

_________________
Best Wishes
Daryl
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 2:50 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat Jul 14, 2018 7:23 pm
Posts: 166
Location: Mississauga , ON. Canada
Nice shooting Daryl ,
Captain Air


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Nov 19, 2021 7:02 pm 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 8165
Location: P.G. B.C.
Tks - my whole point is, these HW "high powered" springers are almost as accurate and perhaps just as accurate as many
PCP rifles, at least at the close ranges.
True, the HW 97's and 98's are not magnum-types, but they do put out 14 to 16 fpe depending on pellets used.

_________________
Best Wishes
Daryl


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 15 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 16 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

phpBB SEO