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| Never trust the beartrap catch https://www.airgunforum.ca/forums/topic74720.html |
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| Author: | Watertown [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 8:50 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Never trust the beartrap catch |
I saw this on another forum. http://www.orangetractortalks.com/forum ... hp?t=28020 |
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| Author: | alextermination [ Mon Dec 12, 2016 9:24 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Never trust the beartrap catch |
This happened to an in law. She still missing a piece of her thumb. |
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| Author: | GerardSamija [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 4:35 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Never trust the beartrap catch |
Never had a barrel slam up when I was a kid, though I probably went through at least 10,000 pellets between the two air rifles I used for a few years before taking a decades-long break from shooting. I'd slam the barrel up on my first Czech break-barrel just for a kick, once it started shooting a bit weaker and wasn't as interesting for hunting. That silliness seemed to inspire its demise. But it also gave me a rough idea of what might happen to my thumb if it happened to slip and slam shut with my thumb in there, pushing a pellet into the bore. When I bought a QB57 a couple of years ago I of course researched the model online for a bit. Found a particularly nasty picture of a guy's thumb after the loading bay cover had slammed shut on it. That thin curved piece of steel makes an excellent guillotine, even though it's rather dull. So when my own sear slipped, owing to a mal-adjustment somewhere in the cheap trigger group which allowed it to release without my interaction, and the quickly following failure of the 'safety' catch (or anti-beartrap mechanism to use the fancy term). It slammed shut but my thumb wasn't in there. I knew before buying the thing that I was going to be holding the cocking arm back any time my digits were in that chamber. Every. Dang. Time. Period. I earn my living with my hands. Not about to lose a finger or thumb to a stupidly designed 'safety' catch. After that one time slipping I removed the parts related to retaining the slide in the open position, and of course adjusted, then decided to beef up construction of the sear and a couple of other trigger-related parts. Brazed in new steel here and there. Brazed the cocking arm pieces into one piece. I still hold that arm back with my upper arm every time I load, so if it ever does slip again I won't be losing any blood. I show my kid once in a while though he's too small yet to operate that rifle, just to build in a memory of good safe practice. Such lessons, including 100% reliable trigger discipline ground into each of us, should prevent most such 'accidents.' |
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| Author: | Stihltech [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:34 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Never trust the beartrap catch |
I cringe just looking at that. I can't imagine how painful that must have been. |
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| Author: | joe hickey [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 5:49 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Never trust the beartrap catch |
I can see the panic that ensued. |
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| Author: | R-Gun Pete [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:17 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Never trust the beartrap catch |
I also bought a QB-57 in 2010. Having read about the danger of bear trap with or without safety, I designed a pellet loader that would keep my fingers safely outside the zone. It was made on a low resolution rapid prototype printer in ABS plastic. Here are some pictures from my CAD software.  It a slower process (because the pellet has to be inserted in the loader first, then it is placed in the breech and the pellet is injected in the barrel) but it works well. R-Gun Pete |
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| Author: | jckstrthmghty [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 10:31 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Never trust the beartrap catch |
R-Gun Pete wrote: I also bought a QB-57 in 2010. Having read about the danger of bear trap with or without safety, I designed a pellet loader that would keep my fingers safely outside the zone. R-Gun Pete I love this idea. If it could hold more than one shot perhaps like a paintball gun loader or pistol mag with a very weak spring. I can see issues with deforming pellets but something to think about. I may try on my own printer. This kind of things keeps me away from buying an under lever. I still want a tx200 and a LGU but I shudder thinking about the day for whatever reason I don't give the breach enough respect. |
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| Author: | R-Gun Pete [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:07 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Never trust the beartrap catch |
Hi jckstrthmghty! Having a reservoir of pellets integrated in the handle was my first try but it failed. Stacking works fairly well with BBs or paintballs (because they are round) but pellets are a source of problems. They have about the same height as the diameter so it is very difficult to stack them properly (without flipping the wrong way) under spring pressure. Cartridges in a firearm mag are easier to stack because they are elongated cylinders. This iteration with a single pellet works well, Anyway, I like to shoot to relax not to get rush so the slower pace is not an issue. If you try it on your printer and it is low resolution (.010" layers/.020" bead), don't forget to leave generous tolerances. Depending of the areas to match and the orientation of the parts, it varies between .010" and .030" but most of the time .020" is a good starting point. As for a underlever air rifle, there is a nice model that will not pinch your fingers in any way. It is the HW 57. I have a detuned Canadian version (under 500 fps) that is very accurate and I shoot it in my basement (31 feet). R-Gun Pete |
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| Author: | topher1266 [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 11:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Never trust the beartrap catch |
If you could integrate a rotary type mag like the CX4 that would hold the pellets without deforming them. |
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| Author: | jckstrthmghty [ Tue Dec 13, 2016 12:25 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Never trust the beartrap catch |
topher1266 wrote: If you could integrate a rotary type mag like the CX4 that would hold the pellets without deforming them. I thought about that but how would end fit in the breach? I have a few idea's of things to try myself. Might be time to pick up a DLP for the higher resolution. hehe. |
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| Author: | Chevota [ Sun Dec 18, 2016 7:54 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Never trust the beartrap catch |
That's what almost happened to me with a Diana 52. I was a millisecond from that pix! The bear trap device does not work! I tested it using a pencil in the breech and it skipped right over the teeth of the bear trap and destroyed the pencil! So I will never shoot and side/under lever again. Break barrels have closed on me a few times but they're way too slow and the motion pushes the breech away from your hand so it's more or less impossible to get pinched. I'm adding that guys pix to my tuning guide of why I hate those guns. To be honest I can't even believe anyone thought it was ever a good idea to make such a gun... |
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| Author: | IanC [ Sun Dec 18, 2016 8:33 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Never trust the beartrap catch |
Its almost impossible to get pinched if you keep holding the barrel after breaking it. Ive seen shots like these before and will never rely on the anti beartrap. |
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| Author: | Sonic [ Mon Dec 19, 2016 7:52 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Never trust the beartrap catch |
I'm not familiar with this bear trap gizmo but I used to make that mistake when I got my first airgun of not holding onto the barrel once it's broken and I crank on anyone around me who doesn't do it now. |
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| Author: | Joolz [ Mon Dec 19, 2016 11:30 am ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Never trust the beartrap catch |
Chevota wrote: So I will never shoot and side/under lever again. To be honest I can't even believe anyone thought it was ever a good idea to make such a gun... I'm trying to make sense of this thread as I'm not familiar with the term anti bear trap (although as Gerard pointed out it simply means a form of safety?). Is it my understanding based on what Chevota mentioned that all under lever and side lever design - be it pistol or rifle - has the potential to leave my finger reshaped to match the one in the pic? If so I guess I'll be removing such gun from my wish list. I always thought an underlever to be a good idea due to the integrated rail/barrel setup, unlike a break barrel whose pivot point could make for an incurate barrel alignment once closed, such is the case with a cheapo youth rifle that wobbles quarter inch after it's been closed  Guess this means no Browning Leverage, no B3 like the one IT Guy bought recently and pretty much any Russian side lever guns, huh? This only applies to spring/piston guns, correct? |
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| Author: | Ace [ Mon Dec 19, 2016 12:31 pm ] |
| Post subject: | Re: Never trust the beartrap catch |
as a safety measure you should realistically never trust any cocking mechanism be it a side lever under leaver or even a break barrel rifle always hold the cocking mechanism with one hand while loading with the other hand as a safety precaution because you never know if something were to let go.... here is a pic and vid of a break barrel rifle if the trigger or sear is accidentally released...so if you were loading a pellet and this were to happen ouch... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhmZxHOAgOI 
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