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Canadians needed for Petition
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Author:  Glem Chally [ Wed Aug 23, 2017 7:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Canadians needed for Petition
Good day,

I want to possibly start a petition for Canada to look into the current airgun laws. Currently its 500FPS or 4.2ft/lbs.
The following meets the criteria for firearm for the criminal code and firearms act.
These are air guns with both a high muzzle velocity (greater than 152.4 metres or 500 feet per second) and a high muzzle energy (greater than 5.7 joules or 4.2 foot-pounds).

I would like to propose we make it like the UK, 12ft/lbs that way people can hunt small game with .177 or would prefer a loopy .22. (at that power level)

I need some names and emails to start the petition. (about 5 to start) then I will start sending it to members of Parliament.

I recently asked the “experts” at the firearms technical division of the RCMP. This man told me “Air guns are first firearms and then, are exempted (-500 fps) because of velocity/Joules not needing PAL/registration but all other firearm storage/transport rules applies.” which is complete bs. By his logic bb guns and paintball guns are firearms and need to be trigger locked etc. Over 500FPS yes you need all this, under 500 it is not a firearm.

We need to look into this ridiculous law, please help!
Author:  AirForceAddict [ Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Canadians needed for Petition
It's way easier to just get a PAL.

You'll also need to petition to change the hunting regs with your proposal.

You can't hunt without a hunting license, and you can't get a hunting license without a firearms license (PAL).

BTW, you need to be more informed, ALL airguns are firearms. The ones below the threshold are exempt from some of the faster shooting regulations. The RCMP was not feeding you BS.
Author:  Glem Chally [ Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Canadians needed for Petition
AirForceAddict wrote:
It's way easier to just get a PAL.

You'll also need to petition to change the hunting regs with your proposal.

You can't hunt without a hunting license, and you can't get a hunting license without a firearms license (PAL).

BTW, you need to be more informed, ALL airguns are firearms. The ones below the threshold are exempt from some of the faster shooting regulations. The RCMP was not feeding you BS.



I have my PAL, the issue is when you classify a low powered (4.3ft/lb) as a firearm for the purposes of the firearm act and the criminal code it limits where it can be used. I have a 25 acre farm I can shoot invasive species and pests at but because the municipality has a no shooting in municipal limits I can't use my PCP there, even if I use it on low power with a heavy pellet to keep it under 500fps.

"You'll also need to petition to change the hunting regs with your proposal.

You can't hunt without a hunting license, and you can't get a hunting license without a firearms license (PAL)."

http://www.env.gov.bc.ca/lower-mainland ... _lists.htm

Clearly states "Schedule "C" animals can be captured or killed anywhere and at any time in BC. Schedule "C" birds may be hunted using electronic calls. You do not need a hunting licence to hunt or kill the following Schedule "C" wildlife:
(a) Rana catesbeiana - American bullfrog
(b) Rana clamitans - green frog
(c) all species of the family Chelydridae - snapping turtles
(d) Didelphis virginiana - North American opossum
(e) Sylvilagus floridanus - eastern cottontail
(f) Oryctolagus cuniculus - European rabbit
(g) Myocastor coypus - nutria
(h) all species of the genus Sciurus - gray squirrels and fox squirrels
(i) Passer domesticus - house sparrow
(j) Sturnus vulgaris - European starling
(k) Columbia livia - rock dove (domestic pigeon)

"ALL airguns are firearms. The ones below the threshold are exempt from some of the faster shooting regulations. The RCMP was not feeding you BS."

Direct from the RCMP site. http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/fs-f ... ir-eng.htm

1. Air guns that are firearms for purposes of both the Firearms Act and the Criminal Code

These are air guns with both a high muzzle velocity (greater than 152.4 metres or 500 feet per second) and a high muzzle energy (greater than 5.7 joules or 4.2 foot-pounds).

Anything else?
Author:  leadslinger [ Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Canadians needed for Petition
AirForceAddict wrote:
It's way easier to just get a PAL.

You'll also need to petition to change the hunting regs with your proposal.

You can't hunt without a hunting license, and you can't get a hunting license without a firearms license (PAL).

BTW, you need to be more informed, ALL airguns are firearms. The ones below the threshold are exempt from some of the faster shooting regulations. The RCMP was not feeding you BS.


Ive been trying to change hunting regs to allow airguns. But it seems like a lot of dead ends. Email one person, wait a month, get told to email this one. ETC ETC.

That's what we need removed. Get airguns out of the Criminal code as firearms. By listing airgun as firearms, restricts alot of airguns we can have here.
Author:  Glem Chally [ Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Canadians needed for Petition
It goes without saying I have no problem with any air rifle used in a crime to be treated as a firearm, also only pushing for 12ft/lb the same as the UK cut-off (which is low). Hunting invasive species can be done by anyone without a license in my Province. Also when I talk about firearm when it is and when it isn't I'm referring to it in the criminal code, and firearms act.

You want to call it a firearm go for it.
Author:  Glem Chally [ Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Canadians needed for Petition
leadslinger wrote:

Ive been trying to change hunting regs to allow airguns. But it seems like a lot of dead ends. Email one person, wait a month, get told to email this one. ETC ETC.

That's what we need removed. Get airguns out of the Criminal code as firearms. By listing airgun as firearms, restricts alot of airguns we can have here.


Well it'll probably always be classified as a firearm above a certain level which I am ok with. But setting it so low it laughable, 12ft/lb leaves the options open to hunt rabbits or squirrels at 50 meters and below. There is a state by state push to allow airgun hunting in the USA and many already have it. We need to increase to 12ft/lb, get rid of our stupid moderator law then push for better airgun hunting laws. Guys like airforceaddict are only hurting the possibility by trying to bully people trying to make things better for all. It's clear I've done my research and he hasn't.
Author:  wllm995 [ Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:40 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Canadians needed for Petition
Might as well get "silencers" approved for air guns only; as the UK currently has.

A health and safety issue as overly loud air guns can damage the hearing of the user and nearby people.

Should in theory be simple... :?
Author:  Glem Chally [ Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Canadians needed for Petition
wllm995 wrote:
Might as well get "silencers" approved for air guns only; as the UK currently has.

A health and safety issue as overly loud air guns can damage the hearing of the user and nearby people.

Should in theory be simple... :?


Yeah someone told me about this one, it's done now but got 11000 signatures. Sound moderators are the only Health and Safety piece of equipment that are illegal in Canada! But this one looks like it's for all guns not just air rifles.

https://petitions.ourcommons.ca/En/Peti ... tion=e-575
Author:  wesb2007 [ Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Canadians needed for Petition
I'll sign your petition. I have my PAL as well but it definitely makes sense to have a 12ft lb rule like UK, as well as muzzle shushers under that limit as well. Very useful for killing pests on farms around cattle, less likely to scare them. It's common sense.

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Author:  leadslinger [ Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Canadians needed for Petition
wllm995 wrote:
Might as well get "silencers" approved for air guns only; as the UK currently has.

A health and safety issue as overly loud air guns can damage the hearing of the user and nearby people.

Should in theory be simple... :?


In the works for powder burners. And if in the CC airguns are firearms, should apply to airguns.
Author:  DocGadget [ Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:52 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Canadians needed for Petition
Why not ask for more? Why not just ask for airguns to not be treated as firearms at all and then if that doesn't work maybe settle for less?
Author:  Glem Chally [ Wed Aug 23, 2017 8:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Canadians needed for Petition
Thanks very much Wesb,

Yeah I have no reason why our limits are set at 1/3 of already low limits.

So to start the petition I need at minimum 5 "supporters" and would be good to list some "statements of fact", what I propose is basically the first 5 people who want to join this with me PM me your first and last name and email address. As a supporter you will be emailed the petition as well.

If anyone wants to help PM me your first and last name and give one statement of fact, here's an example from the moderator petition

*Sound moderators are the only universally recognised health and safety device that has a criminal prohibition in Canada;
*The majority of G7 nations and many others have recognised the health and safety benefits involved, and allow the legal use of sound moderators by hunters and sport shooters;

So far I have these points of fact. Feel free to add input anyone.

*Currently the Canadian air gun laws are among the strictest in the World, I suggest we do something similar to the UK air gun laws. 12ft/lbs and beyond of muzzle energy needs a PAL, currently its set at 500FPS or 4.2ft/lbs.

*The current laws make it unethical to hunt invasive species and pests because of the very low power available in non-PAL form. (Possession and Acquisition license for firearms in Canada)

*The UK air rifle scene is excellent and it’s seen as a sport as it should be, there’s no reason we can’t follow the same regulations here as we have much more rural areas and wide open spaces (that might not be firearm friendly)

*When you categorize a 5 ft/lb air rifle as a firearm you limit where it can be used even if you have a safe backdrop and are a licensed responsible hunter.

*Some large farms are in municipal areas that don’t allow firearm use, if we could increase the power level to 12ft/lbs this could help the farmers control pest species like rats without the use of poison and other dangerous options.

*In France since September 2013, air rifles with a muzzle energy less than 20 joules (14 ft lbf) can be acquired by persons over age 18 and no license is required. (Previously the limit was 10 joules.)

So please if you want to be one of the 5 supporters (PM first and last name and email), or want to add some “statements of fact” do so.
Author:  Watertown [ Thu Aug 24, 2017 7:28 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Canadians needed for Petition
There has been much discussion on the forum regarding the word "or" versus the word "and". There is an old saying "be careful what you ask for, you just might get it". Currently we can shoot any weight pellet as long as we stay below 500 fps. In the UK a lot of people shoot .177 to stay under the energy law.
Author:  Glem Chally [ Thu Aug 24, 2017 8:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Canadians needed for Petition
Watertown wrote:
There has been much discussion on the forum regarding the word "or" versus the word "and". There is an old saying "be careful what you ask for, you just might get it". Currently we can shoot any weight pellet as long as we stay below 500 fps. In the UK a lot of people shoot .177 to stay under the energy law.


I know, that was the angle I was going for with my initial question to the CFB. I wanted to know if I used 43.2 Eun Jin .25 on my FX Royale and kept it on the low power setting it is just under 500. Around 470-490 FPS, if in this configuration is it not a firearm in the eyes of the criminal code/firearms act.

The response was because it was designed that it CAN shoot faster than 500 it is always a firearm even though it doesn't meet both criteria in this configuration.

They go by manufacturer specs, so if specs say it can shoot faster than 500 then it's a "firearm"
Author:  wesb2007 [ Thu Aug 24, 2017 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Canadians needed for Petition
I sent PM. What you have so far is great

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