Canadian Airgun Forum

The #1 Community for Airguns in Canada!
It is currently Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:25 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours


The Canadian Airgun Forums are a place for people to discuss and learn about airguns and the airgunning sport in Canada. There are lots of discussions about airguns, airgun accessories, reviews, modification and repair information, airgun events, field target and free classifieds!

 

You need to register before you can post: click the register link to proceed. Before you register, please read the forum rules. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own pictures, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free! To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.








Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 2:42 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 2159
Location: GTA, ON
In order not to drift the original topic, I opened a new post here to discuss the pellets...



B-Aube wrote:
Heretic wrote:
I was under the belief that round nose/domes are typically the most accurate. Wad cutters leave a cleaner and bigger hole in paper for a potential better target score and easier marking.

But that pointed pellets can maintain velocity over a greater distance? Hence would be beneficial to low powered guns?? (as well as penetrate game better, but I don't do anything but target shoot)

Is that all myths?


No your right. Different pellets for different applications. The CO2 guns under the 500fps limit are designed simply to target practice. No pal needed. Pointed pellets from my understanding are used for hunting squirrels or pest control as my buddy calls it. He has a compress air gun which requires a pal as he way over the 500 limit with his rifle. He uses the pointed pellet for penetrating purposes.


Actually pointed pellets can be used on short distance pest control ( less than 10m, better less than 5 meters) and not that good for hunting as what we thought ( better penetration etc...) because in longer distance, domed pellets will have much better accuracy than the pointed, and if you missed your POI vs POA, it's useless and will bring nothing but just torture to your target...

And for such low powered co2 or pumped air guns, they are not designed for doing so... And before you using your air gun for that purpose, be awared to check your city by-law first...

In general, the domed pellets just a all-round fiter for every purpose expect you really need a clear cut on the bullseye to score...

And wadcutters just for very short ranger shooting and will be affected by wind, air seriously. So 10m is good, but longer.... Then don't think about like 50m shooting etc with a wadcutter...

You will learn this stuff when you have the chance to play with other types of air guns and can build up your own database sooner or later. It just no harm to talk about it if you are interested in this right now ~ :D

Sent from my LG cellphone

_________________
Future AA ProSport
HW30/35
2240+14" barrel
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 9:01 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:56 am
Posts: 30
Location: Regina
I'm learning stuff!

So speciality pellets just gimmicks or for hunters only? Like the piranha and plastic points.

Image

Image

Image

Image


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:15 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 2159
Location: GTA, ON
It's said the 'hollow points' can make more damages than other pellets. It's just similar to the hollow point bullet for the powder burners), however our low powered sub 500fps guns have far less power to 'activate' this effect... So what we got from the hollow points is only the side effect remains.... It's just not as accurate as the domed pellets... But there are some exceptions, like the RWS Super H Point is one of the accurate pellets as reviewed by many users...

I used some Poly-Mags, hollow point with polymer tip to 'fill' the hollow spot... As its design, the polymer tip can help to increase penetration, then while it get into the target, the hollow-point will make the second time damage....

Again, our guns just don't have that kind of power for it... And I just found it doesn't even have the good penetration power I want...

I perfer the pure alloy pellets for penetration purpose... As lead is too soft and will change shape easily when hitting the target so even pointed pellets don't have good penetrating power... But alloy pellets is much harder than lead pellets, so they do well in this field...

Just try to shoot your gun against the soup can to test the power, penetration performance... And use paper target / bullseye to test the accuracy... You will see the results by yourself...

And we can also search the reviews to have a general idea about the fancy pellets...

It's a very interesting experience to do so ~

Happy shooting ~

Sent from my LG cellphone

_________________
Future AA ProSport
HW30/35
2240+14" barrel
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 10:19 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 2159
Location: GTA, ON
Heretic wrote:
I'm learning stuff!

So speciality pellets just gimmicks or for hunters only? Like the piranha and plastic points.

Image



It's say the Piranha is the world's worst pellets has not at all accuracy... :D so I never try this stuff by my own ~ maybe I should do so one day to see how bad it is ~


Sent from my LG cellphone

_________________
Future AA ProSport
HW30/35
2240+14" barrel
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 4:01 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:52 am
Posts: 56
Location: Southern Ontario
So hollow points are just a Lightweight, accurate pellet with decent trajectory for short to medium range shooting. Is it designed for strictly targets or general purpose to provide Maximum shock effect like shooting at rats?

_________________
Walther CP99, Walther CP88 Competition, Beretta F92FS, S&W 586, Colt 1911 A1


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 6:00 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 2159
Location: GTA, ON
B-Aube wrote:
So hollow points are just a Lightweight, accurate pellet with decent trajectory for short to medium range shooting. Is it designed for strictly targets?

Not true... It looks you are talking about wadcutter not hollow point ;) wadcutters are exactly for these purpose I think.

B-Aube wrote:
or general purpose to provide Maximum shock effect like shooting at rats?

Right ~ hollow points weighted from light to heavy or super heavy and it's to provide maximum shock effect

Sent from my LG cellphone

_________________
Future AA ProSport
HW30/35
2240+14" barrel
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 7:36 am 
Offline

Joined: Mon Aug 08, 2016 7:23 am
Posts: 2826
Location: Somewheres near the Atlantic
B-Aube wrote:
So hollow points are just a Lightweight, accurate pellet with decent trajectory for short to medium range shooting. Is it designed for strictly targets or general purpose to provide Maximum shock effect like shooting at rats?


Hollow points are more for maximum expansion. They expand making a bigger wound cavity. Normally lighter weight ones expand the best due to flying faster, and that they're lighter so less dense so once hit they split easier.


I use pointed to dispatch critters. I often get some birds that fly into the window. And yes I got anti bird stickers.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:06 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 2159
Location: GTA, ON
I doubt we need high power guns (maybe 800 or even 1000fps?!) and a head shot to make sure the pellet hit something hard enough to make it splits out... Otherwise I think it would just mushroom down...

I used lots of Crosman hollow point with my 1322 / 2240 before, and looks never seem it split out into pieces but mushroom down even into a piece of lead film while shooting to very hard surface, but still not split out...

But for sure the flat head will make bigger impact when hitting the target... Shoot on a can, and you will see bigger hole than using point / domed pellets...

And we need to be noted, impact is not equal to penetration, right?

Sent from my LG cellphone

_________________
Future AA ProSport
HW30/35
2240+14" barrel
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 8:49 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 10:27 am
Posts: 1108
Location: Thunder Bay,On.
Great expansion at 20 feet or so.....with lower power....but to get the same expansion at hunting distances.....say minimum 60 feet.....800+fps or so are required to maintain the energy as far as possible to allow full expansion...some pellets expand easier than others....that's why I test each new pellet design for expansion...penetration....accuracy..etc... before I go hunting....


Attachments:
1a.JPG
1a.JPG [ 37.52 KiB | Viewed 480 times ]
3a.JPG
3a.JPG [ 39.65 KiB | Viewed 480 times ]

_________________
The cave you fear to enter....holds the treasure you seek
Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:29 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:19 pm
Posts: 8988
Location: Coalmont BC
After testing many pellets in many different airguns, I have come to the following broad conclusions.... when testing pellets of the same caliber and weight....

True Round-nosed pellets (a hemispherical nose like JSB Exacts or Crosman Premiers) have the best BC, so retain the most velocity and energy downrange.... In addition, because of that same smooth shape, and tendency to NOT expand, they have the greatest penetration.... They are usually the most accurate as well, particularly at long ranges....

Wadcutters (flat nose) have the worst BC, losing more velocity and energy than any other type.... They have a slight tendency to expand at higher velocities, and other than Hollow-points, have the least penetration, and because of that are effective hunters at close range.... They can be extremely accurate in some barrels at close range, but the accuracy usually falls of at velocities of over about 700 fps, or at longer ranges (they seem to have a velocity sweet spot)….

Pointed pellets (typically a conical nose) are in between for BC, and retain less downrange velocity and energy than a good Round-nose pellet.... Domed pellets (rounded face but a distinct corner or shoulder at the back of the head) fall into this category.... Their penetration in ballistics gel or soap is generally not quite as good as a Round-nose, but in a hard medium such as wax, paper or wood (and presumably bone) can be better.... I have never found a pointed pellet that shot as accurately as the best Round-nose or Wadcutter in any of my guns....

This leaves the fourth category, Hollow-Points and Specialty pellets.... Generally they are designed to expand on impact, and the faster you drive them, the more violent that expansion, to the point where some come apart into two or more pieces.... I have never found any that were as accurate as the best Round-nose pellet in any of my guns, although some are accurate enough for 30-40 yard hunting use.... I have also never found one that will expand in soap at non-PAL velocities.... but they generally don't penetrate well either, penetrating more like a Pointed or Domed pellet at low velocities when they don't expand....

Something to consider, particularly with non-PAL airguns, is that the BC is very important to the retained velocity and energy downrange.... I shot a variety of .22 cal pellets from a non-PAL gun at a block of soap at 25 yds. to compare the penetration downrange, when all start from the same gun.... This means that pellets with a poor BC (eg. Wadcutters) arrive at the target with less energy than a Round-nosed pellet, so they suffer twice in penetration.... once because they don't penetrate as well anyways, and again because they have slowed down more.... The loss in downrange penetration is dramatic.... There is absolutely no question that Round-nosed pellets are the King for penetration and retained energy downrange.... which is paramount in a non-PAL airgun....

There IS one type of pellet that will expand at non-PAL velocities, but not when used as intended.... If you shoot a Wadcutter backwards (skirt first), it will expand, and the thinner and softer the skirt the more dramatic that is.... Here is a .22 cal RWS Hobby fired backwards into soap at 430 fps....

Image

Whether or not you can hit anything with is is another question entirely.... :lol:

Bob

_________________
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal;
Too many! Springers, Pumpers, CO2, but I love my PCPs and developing them!
Proud Member of the 2000+fps Club!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:38 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 2159
Location: GTA, ON
I like the last one !! LoL, never tried that before!

And I got an good answer for a question I heard before - how to remove the pellet that put into the breech with head out by mistake.... The answer is 'just shoot it out from the barrel ~ '

Sent from my LG cellphone

_________________
Future AA ProSport
HW30/35
2240+14" barrel
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:43 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Jul 26, 2017 7:01 pm
Posts: 2159
Location: GTA, ON
It looks we have lots of domed/ wadcutters / pointed pellets to choose from, but not very much the true round nose pellets... Why?!

Actually wadcutters for scoring, pointed for penetration (at least it looks can penetrate better )...

But why we have more domed than rounded? Actually I was over look ed the round pellets and was thinking it's one of the domed. But Bob has a very detailed description between these two and I know these really should be two different types....

Sent from my LG cellphone

_________________
Future AA ProSport
HW30/35
2240+14" barrel
Camo Chaser long barrel rifle kit
P3+2x20 Kit Scope
HW40+Extender
HW45+Grip panels from Russia


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 11:58 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Aug 15, 2018 11:52 am
Posts: 56
Location: Southern Ontario
Thank you everyone for your thorough input. Greatly appreciated. Question, I never tried Winchester pellets. Are they a very good quality pellet to use?

_________________
Walther CP99, Walther CP88 Competition, Beretta F92FS, S&W 586, Colt 1911 A1


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Wed Sep 19, 2018 9:54 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 03, 2007 4:19 pm
Posts: 8988
Location: Coalmont BC
The RWS Superdome is domed.... JSB Exact and Crosman Premier are round nosed....

I have found that round-nosed tend to penetrate slightly better than the same weight pointed at the muzzle.... and MUCH better downrange because the pointed pellets slow down more than the round-nosed....

Bob

_________________
Dominion Marksman Silver Shield - 5890 x 6000 in 1976, and downhill ever since!
Airsonal;
Too many! Springers, Pumpers, CO2, but I love my PCPs and developing them!
Proud Member of the 2000+fps Club!


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2018 11:35 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Sep 11, 2018 1:02 pm
Posts: 49
Location: Hamilton Ontario
The penetrating power and accuracy of a pellet for my self are broken down to a few simple considerations. The fit and finish of the pellet in the breach.How fast the projectile reaches its intended poi, and the weight of the pellet. As for particular shape or aerodynamic characteristics of each pellet god only knows the all have different characteristics.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 19 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot], twister and 5 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

phpBB SEO