Canadian Airgun Forum

Found the forum a little late but....
Trying to search forums on grain weight ranges for my gas spring rifle and order before sales and shipping rebates end.
I'm looking at the Trail NP2 rifle "1400 fpe" in .177. Is there a max pellet weight to use, once in a while, before causing excessive wear?
I'm seeing listings at suppliers in 13.xx grain. is that a problem for this gun?

Then for a Titan NP "800 fpe" in .22 I'm seeing !5.xx plus.
Are these safe weights for these gas spring guns?

Your mistaking FPE ( ft lb energy ) for FPS ( feet per second )

When you see 1400 FPS readings. Its normally done with light weight alloy pellets. Because people think faster is better. Its a selling feature. When it probably runs only 1000 FPS with a normal say 7.9grn lead pellet.

I never heard of heavier pellet causing wear.

Avg 177 pellet weight is any wheres from 7.4 to 8.6 ish grains. You can get 10grn to 15grn in 177.. But they say don't fire them other then a PCP,, due to probably not enough air behind. Since 177 have a small surface area to make it down the barrel.

Avg 22 cal is 13.8/14.3 to 15 to 18grns.

You will have to test different pellets for power and accuracy, but as a general rule of thumb pick a pellet that will give you between 850-950 fps. Light pellets close to the speed of sound will tumble.
It's true that more speed WAS better back in the day when standard airgun pellet speeds were down around 700fps. But the actual sweet spot is 850-950 depending, and 1400 fps is just ridiculous. Also, magnum springers are a brute to shoot.

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Iacio, ergo sum

I think you are inquiring as to whether a heavy pellet will cause damage to an air rifle spring... a gas ram or seal.There are opposing opinions on this...some say you can break a spring... damage the gas ram or pop a seal from using too heavy a pellet...others say no...I doubt any serious testing has been done on this really...but I will say that a 13 grain pellet is considered very heavy in a .177 and may not give you the most fpe over a lighter pellet...Only a chrony...and a little calculation will show this...

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The cave you fear to enter....holds the treasure you seek

My apologies. Not sure what my keyboard was doing, or my fingers, but I certainly meant FPS not FPE.
How both lines ended up fpe I don'y know...
Also the .22 pellet weight should have said 15.xx grain.

Anyway My Crosman is correct in that I was concerned about a heavy pellet causing back pressure, hammering, extended pressure times in the barrel, or any other problems that I as new to the engineering parameters of airguns might not foresee.
It is of interest reguarding the mention of the very heavy pellet having a reduced FPE over a lighter pellet. Would that be over a longer distance or even very short range as well?

Guess now I'm looking for what anyone in the know might consider the heaviest pellet they would try a run of in either gun I mentioned and have some positive virtue?

There is a gentleman on here called "rsterne" who can give you a detailed account of fps/fpe numbers at a particular distance with a given pellet weight...shape and speed.....Generally a heavy pellet will retain more fpe than a light pellet at a certain distance but one would have to also consider pellet shape and other factors to get an accurate number down range...Best to shoot over a chrony with a known pellet weight to get a true fps/fpe starting point...Also...15 or so grain would be no problem for a 22 cal gun but again there is a point of diminishing returns...however...this is part of the fun of airguns in my opinion....experimentation...good luck

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The cave you fear to enter....holds the treasure you seek

Thanks for the information.
Outside of the chronometer getting used to the gun then extending maximum distance to where the groups can still be maintained with each pellet type then, with a target of consistent density, check penetration of various rounds?
I suppose some gun clubs might have chronometers for members to do testing?
If so once a few pellet performances are known then testing with the penetration method, while not bearing any actual numbers, would give an idea if a new pellet had more or less power.
If one was to care to hunt and wanted to check knock down power, forgetting spread in tissue and such after penetration, between pellets, wouldn't seeing how far each type buried in a target sort of tell effectiveness? Plus getting to beat up a target must be more visceral than shoot all kinds of rounds through a meter?

A chronograph is not an absolute must for checking the effectiveness of certain pellets but it still is nice to know the numbers for each pellet you use...For sure one could use ballistic gel or some other medium for testing pellets...I like to shoot small soup cans at various distances with different pellets and I record the results for future reference.....In fact...when I saw the difference in can destruction between a .177 hollow point next to a .22 cal hollow point I just about never shoot my .177 anymore...If I have helped out at all with your initial question I hope it was in the way of making you think twice about spending a whole lot of money on a certain pellet without first testing ....One time I made the mistake of buying a big quantity of pellets on sale without ever trying them first....big mistake...poor fit in the breech and of course poor accuracy....won't do THAT again...lol...I think you would be happy starting with a .177 at 10 grains or so and in .22 maybe a 15+ grain or thereabouts for your particular guns...and yes its definitely more fun to go and shoot up some cans or some other target that will show expansion and penetration properties of each pellet...Of course accuracy is always first and foremost...

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The cave you fear to enter....holds the treasure you seek

[emoji38] I did exactly the same ~

But it just changes from time to time as I shoot paper targets in my basement too ~ But I do love the soup can test very much ~

And when your collections grows, you will find different gun likes different pellet is true. And your pellet collection will grows with your gun collection... I tried some times a pellet stuck inside the barrel after I pulled the trigger. I think that's more serious than an over weight pellet.

However it won't damage anything in your gun if just a few times. But just remember don't pair this pellet with this gun in the future, that's good enough ~



Sent from my LG cellphone

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~Plinkers~
FX-M3-22 Compact#PP700-Carbine#Diana48-177#XS28M-25@26fpe#HW45 Beast#AW-Custom Z-Killer DE
~Competitors~
FWB300SU#Tau-7#IZH-46M#FWB-65#CP88-C
~Target~
HW 30s/35e/97k/40+Extender/P3+Scope/70#CZ200s Laminated@10fpe#AA ProSport-177@12fpe

Sure a .177 has its uses...but I'll take a .22 over a .177 for hunting any day....same fpe more or less...at the muzzle for both guns...

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The cave you fear to enter....holds the treasure you seek

Some clubs have Chronys. But they normally belong to a group in the club ( IPSC, CAS ) and not really for general membership use. For a good reason. Not everybody can respect belongings.

I know our PPC/IPSC group we have one in the locker for us to borrow. But if we allowed general membership to borrow it. It will end up being shot. I ship mine out for the cost of shipping.

I shoot up to 13.3 grain JSB's in my HW97KT
177 under lever as well as up to 19.09 H&N's
In my HW98, break barrel rifle. These pellets are the most accurate in the .22 '98 as well as in-the-running as most accurate in the .177 under lever gun.
I have shot hundreds of each in each of the rifles - no damage. The HW97 runs 890fps with it's most accurate
pellet the JSB 8.2?gr. Cometa. The HW98 in .22 shoots best with that 19.09gr. Barracuda Hunter EX. At 630fps.
The heavy .22 hits a LOT harder, but also has a lot more drop over 50yards. Initial testing shows the 22gr. H&N match pellet to be very accurate in my .22PCP, but I haven't tried it in the Springer.
I firmly believe you will do more damage from shooting
really light pellets, than from shooting the heavier ones
calibre to calibre.
Downloading the program "chair-gun" is a good idea
to show drops and zeros for about any pellet.

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Best Wishes
Daryl

There you have it....someone who actually tested very heavy pellets and found no damage afterwards...I was hoping you...or rsterne...or chevota would clear this up as many of us I'm sure... were/are curious to know.....this is one test I didn't want to do myself so thanks for the info...

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The cave you fear to enter....holds the treasure you seek

Looks like, due to local availability, and sale time of year, I'm following in the footsteps of greatness. Just bought quite a few rounds of various pellets to compare...
I guess at least the new gun will have some expensive break in ammo while I save the well pairing ammo for better days, or at least blasting holes in larger targets?

That certainly is a difference in damage. Seemingly better than 25% size differential. Even imagining that a slower pellet's extra time to push on the can wall as it breaks through, might deform more adjacent metal, it's impressive food for thought...

Some clubs have Chronys. But they normally belong to a group in the club ( IPSC, CAS ) and not really for general membership use. For a good reason. Not everybody can respect belongings.

I know our PPC/IPSC group we have one in the locker for us to borrow. But if we allowed general membership to borrow it. It will end up being shot. I ship mine out for the cost of shipping.[/quote]

Interesting. Once I get up and shooting, and there is no chrony to use, I may ask for a turn at yours?

I firmly believe you will do more damage from shooting
really light pellets, than from shooting the heavier ones
calibre to calibre.
Downloading the program "chair-gun" is a good idea
to show drops and zeros for about any pellet.[/quote]

Those are interesting weights, higher than I might have tried, and above what I ordered.
The damage you refer to is the gun and not the target?
Is there a trusted site to download the program?

Damage to the gun as I understand it from really light weight pellets is usually in spring breakage and perhaps seal damage as well.
.22 calibre air rifles, especially if running similar or higher FPE will most certainly deliver more target damage and show greater effectiveness in hunting scenarios. I will add to that, if shooting small, easily dispatched game like gophers at relatively close range out to 50 meters, or so, a .177 developing 14 to 15fpe, will have enough power for the job, as well as being easier to hit with. The HW97KT
177 I used was easily capable of chest and head hits st that range producing instant humane kills.
Also, for that "game" you should have a laser range finder, especially if using a .22 cal. air rifle of the same fpe range.
Just Google Hawke Chair-Gun Program

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Best Wishes
Daryl