Canadian Airgun Forum

The #1 Community for Airguns in Canada!
It is currently Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:59 am

All times are UTC - 5 hours


The Canadian Airgun Forums are a place for people to discuss and learn about airguns and the airgunning sport in Canada. There are lots of discussions about airguns, airgun accessories, reviews, modification and repair information, airgun events, field target and free classifieds!

 

You need to register before you can post: click the register link to proceed. Before you register, please read the forum rules. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload your own pictures, and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free! To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.








Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 
Author Message
 Post subject: max C02 fps
PostPosted: Mon Nov 18, 2013 7:28 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:54 pm
Posts: 361
Location: Earth
Given our transnational audience and curiosity driven 'theoretical' quest for max everything:
What is the maximum recorded fps for (please insert here) conditions using carbon bioxide propellant?

All answers may or may not fall under the "someone I might know" category of observable measurements for reasons that shall exceed the scope of this query.
Small bore or large, regulated or not, I gotta ask.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: max C02 fps
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:58 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 10:49 am
Posts: 6029
Location: Victoria, BC and Clarkston, WA
We need more variables to give you answers!
CO2 at it's best is only 850 psi. If it is colder it drops. if it is above 40c it goes up dangerously!
HPA is relatively unaffected by air temperature. Guns can be filled up to 3500psi!

_________________
-Rick
Pardini K10
Brocock Concept .22
3 Custom Crosman 2260
Benjamin Discovery .22 w/Joe Hickey stock!
Crosman 150 pistol .22
4 Crosman MK 1 pistol .22
Mrodair CP-1M .22 and .177


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: max C02 fps
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:55 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:07 am
Posts: 3320
Location: Central West River Nova Scotia
The expansion rate of Co2 is directly affected by atmospheric temperature. The size if the bore also affect,s the expansion rate, as does the weight of the projectile being pushed and the tightness if the barrel (friction) upon that projectile. During my own experiment,s I was able to achieve 720 fps (IIRC) with an 18 inch .177 barrel and a 7 gr pellet. Some modification,s from the stock gun were necessary. although above 500 fps is achievable, the shot count diminishes considerably the faster the pellet. At about a dollar per powerlet, 8-10 shots per powerlet is costly. HPA is a much better way to go for power/speed.

_________________
If I had only one wish, it would be to be able to "unsay" things.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: max C02 fps
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 8:12 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Mon Oct 10, 2011 12:29 pm
Posts: 3110
Location: New Brunswick
rrdstarr wrote:
We need more variables to give you answers!
CO2 at it's best is only 850 psi. If it is colder it drops. if it is above 40c it goes up dangerously!
HPA is relatively unaffected by air temperature. Guns can be filled up to 3500psi!

Myself I would be very nervous holding a pressure vessel containing 3,500 PSI near my cheek. (Eeeek!)

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: max C02 fps
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:50 am 
Offline

Joined: Tue Oct 22, 2013 3:48 pm
Posts: 37
SureShot wrote:
rrdstarr wrote:
We need more variables to give you answers!
CO2 at it's best is only 850 psi. If it is colder it drops. if it is above 40c it goes up dangerously!
HPA is relatively unaffected by air temperature. Guns can be filled up to 3500psi!

Myself I would be very nervous holding a pressure vessel containing 3,500 PSI near my cheek. (Eeeek!)



Paintballers have been doing this for a number of years, and there have been no injuries. I can guarantee that paintballers are far rougher on their equipment than what we'd be. FWIW, I have used 3000-4500psi air tanks on my paintball guns since 1995 and have played in a variety of tournaments throughout western Canada and into the US.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: max C02 fps
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:36 pm 
Offline

Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 12:09 pm
Posts: 1677
Location: Waterloo, Ontario
Quote:
blarg wrote
What is the maximum recorded fps for (please insert here) conditions using carbon bioxide propellant?
All answers may or may not fall under the "someone I might know" category of observable measurements for reasons that shall exceed the scope of this query.
Small bore or large, regulated or not, I gotta ask.



Tom Gaylord (B.B. Pelletier) once mentioned (http://www.pyramydair.com/article/What_ ... ber_2003/6) about super-powerful .22-caliber Philippine CO2 rifles with longer barrels which got over 900 f.p.s on a very hot day (85 degrees F and more). These guns have wide-open valves and were built to shoot as fast as possible. In another of his articles he mentioned about the Farco 28 gauge CO2 shotgun made in the Phillipines that is capable of accelerating a 120-grain .433 Hornady lead ball to about 500 f.p.s when the temperature hovers around 80 degrees F. Apparently, the Farco CO2 rifle is also produced in .22 cal (http://airgunner.org/?page_id=3). I can imagine that the .22cal Farco could easily shoot up to 1000 fps at around 85F. At that temperature the CO2 pressure is about 1050 psi and that high pressure combined with a long Farco barrel could achieve up to 1000fps.
The .177 AirForce Condor on CO2 delivers up to 850 fps (http://www.pyramydair.com/s/m/AirForce_ ... coped/1669). I can imagine that if temperature is around 85F it could easily shoot even over 900fps.
It seems to me that we can safely assume that the maximum achievable muzzle velocity for a CO2 rifle at temperature around 85F is at least 900fps (I think it could be even 1000fps).


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: max C02 fps
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 3:51 pm 
Offline

Joined: Mon Jun 24, 2013 6:54 pm
Posts: 361
Location: Earth
HPA is the way for power - granted.
Hot C02 is at higher pressure then cold C02 - granted.
I am just fishing for measured results, whatever the caliber, barrel length, mods (expected for the higher numbers).

I saw 680 in .22 with a 24 inch barrel and no other mods.
I expect modifications would bump that number as was noted, so welcome measured results.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: max C02 fps
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 4:19 pm 
Offline
Supporting Members
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 01, 2007 10:54 pm
Posts: 4935
Location: Saint John NB
Use CO2 to push a piston instead of a spring and see what #s you get :wink: The rate at which CO2 expands compared to a coil spring would push that piston ahead so fast...........something to think about for all those mad modders :mrgreen:

_________________
Jonathan

Im addicted to brake fluid..........but I can stop anytime....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: max C02 fps
PostPosted: Tue Nov 19, 2013 10:43 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Nov 06, 2010 8:53 am
Posts: 6480
Location: Montreal
SureShot wrote:
rrdstarr wrote:
We need more variables to give you answers!
CO2 at it's best is only 850 psi. If it is colder it drops. if it is above 40c it goes up dangerously!
HPA is relatively unaffected by air temperature. Guns can be filled up to 3500psi!

Myself I would be very nervous holding a pressure vessel containing 3,500 PSI near my cheek. (Eeeek!)

Lots of rifle store 3000 psi right on your face (Evanix, AirForce etc) and the other PCP's store it not very far anyways. And how about the tank? My tank holds 4500psi, it's right next to me as I'm typing this. I think if the tank (on the rifle or separate) can hold that much psi it's pretty stong and if you're careful nothing bad should happen to you.

How much psi is contained inside you car engine? How many explosions are happening in a 4/6/8 cylinder engine at 3000rpm? How much pressure are your shocks taking when passing over a bump or railroad tracks? What is the operating pressures in your brake and cooling systems?
Modern diesel engine fuel system are pressurized above 20 000psi. Yet you drive your car without worrying about all those high pressures and explosions and all the potential hazards they may create because you're used to them.

And that is one of the parts I love about airguns, firearms and motorsports. There you have a pile of relatively small parts all working together in managing an explosion or other means of moving things in extreme precision. The smallest of problems could create catastrophic results yet you're not only using it a lot but most of us enjoy it a lot!

_________________
Facebook is like ancient Egypt, people write on walls and worship cats

You can’t buy a single airgun for everything. Golfers use many different clubs, airgunners need more than one gun


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: max C02 fps
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:15 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sun Jan 09, 2011 8:07 am
Posts: 3320
Location: Central West River Nova Scotia
What about powder burner,s. only 8 inches in front of your eye,s, pushing against a bolt pointed at your face.
Accident,s happen and will continue to, so you have to ask yourself.......Do you feel lucky ? well...... do ya ?

_________________
If I had only one wish, it would be to be able to "unsay" things.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: max C02 fps
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 7:19 am 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Wed Dec 02, 2009 4:04 pm
Posts: 1080
650 fps out of my .22 air magnum bone stock. Good enough for gophers.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: max C02 fps
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:25 am 
Offline

Joined: Wed Jan 05, 2011 12:35 pm
Posts: 6074
Location: P.G. B.C.
I've a number of powder burners that run right around the 65,000PSI limit - couple that I push past that - a bit - inches in front of my face - if you actually think about that -???????? - naaaaaaaaaaaaa, best not to dwell on the subject, keep it safe and have fun. I only have low pressure handguns - 35,000psi but they are held way out in front - mostly. Kinda makes those 3,000psi to 4,500psi air guns become pipsqueaks, doesn't it.

_________________
Best Wishes
Daryl


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: max C02 fps
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 6:24 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2011 5:58 am
Posts: 495
Location: Eastern Ontario
Daryl wrote:
I've a number of powder burners that run right around the 65,000PSI limit - couple that I push past that - a bit - inches in front of my face..... Kinda makes those 3,000psi to 4,500psi air guns become pipsqueaks, doesn't it.


Well, when you put it that way...yup! :)

SureShot wrote:
Myself I would be very nervous holding a pressure vessel containing 3,500 PSI near my cheek. (Eeeek!)


I used to think that way too when I first started, but as long as you do your homework and play by the rules (i.e - NO shortcuts) you'll be fine. What about scuba divers? They strap 1, sometimes 2 tanks directly to their back and then wrap their lips around the output end of the hose!... :shock: ...now THAT would make me more nervous than any of my HPA guns, and yet you never hear (at least I never have) of a diver killed or maimed from a tank exploding or have a reg failure resulting in a) ballooning up like a puffer fish, or worse, b) being propelled through the water at warp 9 from a 3000 psi jetstream flyin' outta yer arse! :rolleyes:

_________________
Cheers,
Todd


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: max C02 fps
PostPosted: Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:22 pm 
Offline
User avatar

Joined: Sat Mar 16, 2013 5:15 am
Posts: 3590
Location: Edmonton
Daryl wrote:
I've a number of powder burners that run right around the 65,000PSI limit - couple that I push past that - a bit - inches in front of my face - if you actually think about that -???????? - naaaaaaaaaaaaa, best not to dwell on the subject, keep it safe and have fun. I only have low pressure handguns - 35,000psi but they are held way out in front - mostly. Kinda makes those 3,000psi to 4,500psi air guns become pipsqueaks, doesn't it.


Yes and no, actually. I don't think it really matters if you are standing in the middle of a highway and you are hit by a volkswagen versus an 18-wheeler hauling two puppies, either going 110 kph. :mrgreen:


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 14 posts ] 

All times are UTC - 5 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
News News Site map Site map SitemapIndex SitemapIndex RSS Feed RSS Feed Channel list Channel list

Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

phpBB SEO