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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 12:49 am 
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Location: Central BC
So I decided to gently lubricate the recently acquired Tempest today. I used about 3-4 drops of RWS Spring oil dropped into the cocking slot, and 2 drops of silicone chamber oil into the transfer port. Left the pistol standing on it's butt then fired off some pellets. The first 5-6 went off without problem, some minor "spray" blowing out the excess oil. Then I went to cock it for the next shot and it would not engage the spring (unable to cock the gun). I can rotate the barrel throughout the entire barrel's arc, but it will not positively engage the spring.
I find it hard to believe that some minimal lubrication caused this but there is no other explanation I'm aware of. Cocking effort seems to be the same, everything sounds the same as before, just a tad smoother.

Any idea what's going on here?

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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:03 am 
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Does the trigger still move ok, or feel ok when you move it? I know it doesn't have its full range of movement when it's not cocked, but it should still move back and forth a little bit.

If you hold the pistol upside-down and look into the trigger area, just infront of the trigger, you can see the sear and sear spring. You might need to use a flashlight to get a good look in there, but check that you can see them both and they look ok. Refer to the owners manual, it has a good illustration of how the sear, spring, and trigger should all be aligned.

If all that looks good you could try putting a drop of oil in there on the sear. The manual says to use Webly gun oil of course but your RWS spring oil ought to be ok.


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PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2016 9:56 am 
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Thanks Stephanie. I actually woke up several times in the night with my brain spinning in circles trying to figure out what was going on as it didn't make any sense.

I got up this morning thinking it had something to do with the sear or trigger adjustment. Sure enough, upon inspection, the trigger adjustment screw had backed itself out too far causing the issue. I was able to screw it further in, allowing everything to engage again. Seems that either it was too far out to begin with or it's worked its way out over the hundred shots or so I've put through it. I'm going to apply a dab of loctite to it to make it a little harder for the screw to work its way out again.

Always something to be learned...

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PostPosted: Sat Aug 13, 2016 4:17 pm 
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Be careful of those "oils" on the cocking linkage and cocking shoe which both need real grease. If you use silicone on those parts it'll probably seize up pretty quick. So if you ever feel increased friction when cocking, stop right there and grease those those parts before it really tears them up. The linkage is easy, just grease the under side of the square bar so it slides over that rounded piece. For the shoe you need to get the grease in the slot where it rides, so maybe a tooth pick or just pack the grease in there. You should also soak each of the pivot pins in the linkage with real oil. I use 30wt Royal Purple. If you look at the linkage and shoe while cocking you can see the great deal of metal to metal scraping they have to deal with. A grease with an additive would be better, like moly paste. I use a home mix of grease and tungsten disulfide which is both better and cheaper per oz, but the paste is ready made and does work.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 12:59 pm 
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Thanks Chevota, I've used the oil only through the breech seal port. I've used moly on the moving linkages and slide on the outside areas I can get at. I haven't put any lube on the slide that moves over the piston body as I couldn't see if contact was actually occurring there.
Using the Royal Purple would sure make getting into the pins and links easier, instead of trying to work moly in there, I'll give that a shot.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 14, 2016 5:04 pm 
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By slide do you mean the cocking shoe? Nomenclature is sketchy so see part BK118 in attached pix, or H38 in the exploded parts pix. Generally the shoe is the piece at the end of the linkage that pushes the piston, or in this case pulls it. So the wings of that piece are inside the receiver and when cocking it's scraping very hard. I'm actually surprised the guns aren't infamous for this. My first Tempest was maybe ~1985 and it started to seize up in <500 shots. Once the harder shoe tears up the inside of the receiver it'll never be the same. It can't really be fixed, just sanded as best you can and hope for the best, which is why you stop at the first sign of friction which is obvious when cocking. So whether mine was a fluke or not, the part still sees a lot a friction so it's better to be safe than sorry and keep it greased. You can also mix the dry powdered tungsten disulfide or moly with the oil so it can soak into those pins. Beeman used to sell this solvent with moly for hard to reach spots. You shake it to mix the two then apply and it wicks into places you normally can't reach, then it evaporates leaving the moly behind. Then add a drop of oil and you're golden. You can do the same with a solvent, or just mix the dry with oil like I do. If you don't want to buy the dry lube you can use solvent on the moly paste, just experiment to be sure the solvent evaporates completely and doesn't ruin the paste. Another thing is heat, you can heat the moly paste, maybe like a heroin addict inna spoon? Then it should flow much better but I've never tried with paste. Probably a fine line between flowing well and catching fire, but a thought.
The breech seal is really the only part that will wear, or I should say expire as any rubber does. Once too far gone you can usually turn it around to get some more life out of it, but that's the indicator to order a new one. The main seal is pretty tough so it should last just fine. The main spring may degrade as they all tend to do, but I don't know anything about the newer non-English ones. The plastic cover for the front end is the usually the first part to fail, usually breaking where the pin holds it. I suspect rough handling/abuse is the cause because if handled with care it'll be fine. So note that be careful because it's kinda ugly w/o that piece, and I remember it being both hard to find and expensive. If you ever pull the piston out you should smooth the sharp edges in the receiver where the trigger and linkage go or they'll cut the main seal when you reinstall. This is a problem with most all spring piston guns, and your seal likely already has some damage from the oem install, but smoothing those spots will prevent further damage. Optionally you can buy a new seal if the oem damage bugs you like it bugs me. Speaking of this damage, which causes leakage, it's an issue if you use silicone in the transfer port. The problem is when fired the silicone gets blown thru that leak and gets on parts like the piston and cocking shoe where it can cause real damage. The only actual advantage I can see to silicone in that gun is it will likely give the breech seal a longer life since motor oil typically shortens the life or synthetic rubbers. If someone insists on using silicone then I suggest greasing the shoe more often to be safe.


Attachments:
Tempest exploded3.jpg
Tempest exploded3.jpg [ 320.78 KiB | Viewed 634 times ]
Hurricane exploded.jpg
Hurricane exploded.jpg [ 32.87 KiB | Viewed 634 times ]
Barrel assy.jpg
Barrel assy.jpg [ 8.5 KiB | Viewed 634 times ]
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