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 Post subject: Crosman Phantom CS5M22
PostPosted: Wed Aug 17, 2016 7:07 am 
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Has anybody seen any FPS increase in upgrading the main spring on this .22 rifle? I just bought one from Amazon.ca.From what I read its just the main spring part number B18-00-4D that is required.


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PostPosted: Thu Aug 18, 2016 10:46 pm 
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It depends on the spring that was in there and what piston you have. If your piston is ~150m long and has no hole in it then the spring will make it a full power gun. From there you can tune it if you want to squeeze more power from it while also making it quieter and smoother. I hate the spring twang so I always fix that at the very least.
What did that spring cost? I'm curious because a lot of people ask me about price and sources.


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PostPosted: Fri Aug 19, 2016 5:44 am 
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Chevota wrote:
It depends on the spring that was in there and what piston you have. If your piston is ~150m long and has no hole in it then the spring will make it a full power gun. From there you can tune it if you want to squeeze more power from it while also making it quieter and smoother. I hate the spring twang so I always fix that at the very least.
What did that spring cost? I'm curious because a lot of people ask me about price and sources.


13 to 18$ depending on where you get it. I just ordered one for my Vantage and that part # was like 13 dollars and change. I ordered one in case I decide to go that route.

My vantage 177 w/o using a full power spring shooting high 600 with 7.9 and mid 700s with 7.4's. Phantom's Ive seen mid 700's with 14.3s

OP Grab some molly paste, alum tape, stainless washers,tall boy can, and do a tune. Makes a huge difference in how loud it is. Once you get rid of the annoying twang and all you get is a pop its much more backyard friendly.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:41 am 
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dscvmc wrote:
Has anybody seen any FPS increase in upgrading the main spring on this .22 rifle? I just bought one from Amazon.ca.From what I read its just the main spring part number B18-00-4D that is required.


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I bought mine from wallyworld a while ago when they were on sale for $75. Mine had the short piston and the weak spring. A full tune, new piston seal (original was nicked), and lube with moly produced 740 fps with 14.3gr cphp with the spring you mentioned.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:45 am 
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I hate that spring twang too. I assume the moly takes care of that. How many washers and where do they go? What do you do with the aluminum tape ? Im new at this stuff :).


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:32 am 
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.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 7:43 am 
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dscvmc wrote:
I hate that spring twang too. I assume the moly takes care of that. How many washers and where do they go? What do you do with the aluminum tape ? Im new at this stuff :).


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Well I said washers. But I used stainless peel washers for a muzzle device. I used them for the spring to twist easier on. The alum tape is to go on the guides to take up some of the slack. The can is to go in the piston to also take up the slap. I just get a pop from my gun now.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:13 pm 
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Moly has very little effect on twang and buzz. If you use enough of it to affect the twang, you'll be over-lubed and dieseling like a Mack truck. The spring needs to be dampened at it's extended length length since it gets fatter as it gets shorter (compressed). Either a buffer on the inside of the spring (shrink tubing on the guide) or a buffer on the outside of the spring (piston liner) or both will quell the vibes. If the spring is too tight on the shrink-tubed guide, the oleofin(sp?) tubing will shred. If the piston liner is too thick, the spring will bind inside the piston since it expands when compressed. It's a balancing act. When you get it right, you get a quiet thump and a long spring life.

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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 1:53 pm 
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ricksplace wrote:
Moly has very little effect on twang and buzz. If you use enough of it to affect the twang, you'll be over-lubed and dieseling like a Mack truck. The spring needs to be dampened at it's extended length length since it gets fatter as it gets shorter (compressed). Either a buffer on the inside of the spring (shrink tubing on the guide) or a buffer on the outside of the spring (piston liner) or both will quell the vibes. If the spring is too tight on the shrink-tubed guide, the oleofin(sp?) tubing will shred. If the piston liner is too thick, the spring will bind inside the piston since it expands when compressed. It's a balancing act. When you get it right, you get a quiet thump and a long spring life.


Or run into this issue. Where your sleeve breaks down.

Image

Image


At 13$ per spring its not a big loss.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:23 pm 
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Ouch. Yeah, alum isn't a good idea, try some plastic like from a 2-liter bottle or something thicker. I cut the plastic so the edges butt together and make for a tight fit. Kinda a pita since the plastic edges need to be perfectly straight, parallel and the exact width to fit in there. I do it by cutting it close but a bit too wide, then I sand the edges down which makes them straight so they can butt together and stay butted. Then keep sanding down until a perfect tight fit. 2-liter bottles vary in thickness, they even vary top to bottom on the same bottle so you might measure several of them and pick the best. Pistons vary in ID too, so you may want to do two layers, or just find a thicker bottle like maybe vinegar or whatever. Even one layer of plastic that is too loose is substantially better than nothing. I also sand the inside of the piston so it can slide in easier, put the seam opposite the slot, make teeth on the fwd end and bend them like how Weihrauch does with the steel liners so it won't back out. Sand both sides of the plastic, the outer so it can better lock to the piston, the inner so it'll hold lube. I sand the outer edges of the spring with say 600 and finer so it glides over the plastic better than its oem rough surface.
I don't bother with the guide since it's too tight to fit anything on it, but I spoze epoxying some super thin plastic would hold up, if you can find any that thin. The thinnest I've found is those bulk back water bottles, some cheaper ones are .003" thick but hard to find any that have flat sides. Another option is you can squeeze the guide in a vice to make it slightly squarish and thus a tighter fit. I sand the guide so it'll hold lube better, or spring tar if used, and sand smooth the inner edge of the spring.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:34 pm 
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Good info on spring dampening thanks.I am betting that my Phantom .22/500 has the short piston without a hole and the weaker spring. I have ordered a couple of piston seals and the larger spring.I plan to make a spring compressor next.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 3:43 pm 
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Anybody have any pics regarding the spring dampening tricks?


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:10 pm 
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dscvmc wrote:
Good info on spring dampening thanks.I am betting that my Phantom .22/500 has the short piston without a hole and the weaker spring. I have ordered a couple of piston seals and the larger spring.I plan to make a spring compressor next.


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495 fps spring you don't need one. Just use 2 blocks of wood, scissor jack and a door frame. Cardboard down to keep grease off the carpet.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 5:14 pm 
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Your from NS? I can lend you my spring compressor. I'm in Halifax.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 21, 2016 6:36 pm 
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leadslinger wrote:
Your from NS? I can lend you my spring compressor. I'm in Halifax.

ok i will keep that in mind.thanks!


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