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Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.
https://www.airgunforum.ca/forums/topic75740-15.html		 Page 2 of 7
Author:  robertr [ Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.
Should have more results from another tester soon. The bearing in my rifle is holding up good, I am beyond counting the shots put through the rifle since the bearing mod but it has been a lot.
Author:  rsterne [ Wed Jan 30, 2019 11:45 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.
I would be cautious.... I have heard more than one story of the thrust bearings coming apart inside a springer and causing damage.... I have no personal experience either way, but I would not personally use them.... YMMV....

Bob
Author:  robertr [ Thu Jan 31, 2019 4:55 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.
I have heard that but with a properly tuned rifle using the right weight pellets I can't see how there would be damage to the bearing. You would have to fire the rifle yourself to see what I mean, very smooth shot cycle. If I was using ball bearings maybe but I chose needle bearings for that reason, more surface area on the washers.
As long as I don't dry fire the rifle the bearing should be ok, of course this is the hole reason for the test, to see if it works right. To each his own.
I would like to read one of these threads about the failure, would be interesting to know the specifics of their test and find out why theirs failed.
Author:  Pinch [ Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.
Very interesting thread, thanks for sharing your results :drinkers:
Author:  Mac [ Thu Jan 31, 2019 7:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.
A number of years back, I had a friend who had his TX200 tuned by a reputable tuner from the US that used these bearings. He was at the US Nationals when the bearing gave out and filled his gun with metal bits. He stopped shooting it immediately and he and some very knowledgeable US guys and Brits had enough part to get the gun back up and running in short order, once all the shrapnel was cleaned out.

Stop shooting as soon as you hear anything out of the ordinary on that rifle, because if/when that bearing gives up, it does so dramatically.
Author:  robertr [ Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.
Yes definitely listen for any strange new sound when shooting, what parts did he have to change, could just taken the bearing parts out if nothing was damaged and kept on shooting with a slight loss in velocity.
Author:  robertr [ Thu Jan 31, 2019 8:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.
Found a tin of 6gr Norinco pellets to try in the 350 and give the bearing a good workout. At two feet away they go through a 2x4 surprisingly and give a good crack when they are shot. See if I can make this bearing fail.
For the sake of testing here we go.
Author:  robertr [ Thu Jan 31, 2019 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.
Chrony'd the pellets, 6 grain Norinco's- 1115fps, Air Arms 8.4grain- 1060fps, H&N sniper Mag 15 grains- 752fps
Ten shot string with the AA 8.4's,
1. 1058
2. 1063
3. 1065
4. 1066
5. 1064
6. 1062
7. 1064
8. 1057
9. 1059
10.1061
The bearing has had no negative effect on consistency.
Author:  Ace [ Thu Jan 31, 2019 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.
your shooting a 6gr pellet in a magnum springer.... :roll: :rolleyes:
your just begging for trouble.... :ANAL:
even 8.4's are still a bit on the light side IMO
Author:  Chevota [ Fri Feb 01, 2019 12:39 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.
Hobbyman2007: People don't post after b/c it doesn't work, spring TQ needs to exist in order to remove it.
I've made pivot washers but for me it's to reduce stress on the spring. Basically it bugs me to think the spring may have settled (after fired) a bit torqued, so i want to think it's settled to a relaxed state every time. If torqued then it (may) scrape the cocking shoe more than necessary which also bugs me. I guess I like to baby my springs but it has nothing to do with some mystery gun movement.
Like others here, I too wonder if needle bearings will survive. I use a combo of plastic and steel thrust washers which works, will last forever and is basically free. The needle bearings remind me of the transmission in my truck, which had a needle thrust brg like that which got crushed and party over. I replaced it w/ a normal copper washer and prob solved. There is (imo) no bennie or logical reason to put that part in the tranny so why, other than GM wanted it to fail or maybe somebodys brother was the seller of said bearing. That would not surprise me at all, some guy makes a few cents per tranny while every other buyer has to buy a new trans.
Another aftermarket airgun parts guy sold some brass barrel washers and a sleeve for a gas spring, the washers typically made the gun worse and the bushing put side loading on the spring which it's not designed to handle. But he got his huge markup for the cheap parts which is the true purpose of them. Like the saying: "There's two kinds of fishing lures; the kind that catch fish and the kind that catch fishermen".
So your bearing may last forever, or it may damage your gun, is zero gain worth the huge risk? At least be very wary of any odd noise or grinding feel when cocking it so you can minimize the damage...
I don't mean to be a negative nancy, I just don't want to see the gun damaged.
Fyi I'd check out the JSB 13.43gr pellets
Author:  robertr [ Fri Feb 01, 2019 1:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.
Haha, Ace that is the whole point, to put stress on the bearing. You have one thing right though 6 or 8 grain pellets are to light. My go to pellets are 10.5 grain which work well. Remember this is a test. Read the whole thread man.
Author:  Ace [ Fri Feb 01, 2019 11:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.
yes ok I get your point... just thought i'd put that out there in case other see your
chrony numbers and figure they will use a light pellet as well without knowing the
consequences... :wink:
Author:  Mac [ Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.
robertr wrote:
Yes definitely listen for any strange new sound when shooting, what parts did he have to change, could just taken the bearing parts out if nothing was damaged and kept on shooting with a slight loss in velocity.

The biggest problem was having to completely clean all the interior parts to remove the chunks and metal dust etc. Once that was done, it had to be re-lubed and one of the guys had a washer or combination of washers almost exactly the thickness of the one that failed. If you start shooting at a lower velocity without the proper click chart, kiss any chance of doing well goodbye. No ChairGun at that time, everything was set up by shooting.

Pretty sure it was the 2000 US Nationals/World match in Minnesota and he placed 7th in the Piston Division instead of a DNF.

To the bigger matches, he now carries a kit that would allow him to completely rebuild the gun if necessary. Almost all serious FT shooters do the same. Never know when a spring is going to break and having a preset, identical spring with a few hundred shots on it will allow you to get back in a match with minimal change in velocity.
Author:  robertr [ Fri Feb 01, 2019 3:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.
Well that sucks for your buddy, glad he did well. I just backyard shoot, open field, no problem if it fails I will just fix any problems, I have had this rifle for almost 20 years, I know it pretty well.. I do like how the gun just has backward movement when fired , no spring torque at all.
Would you happen to know how long the bearing was in his gun before failure?
Author:  Mac [ Fri Feb 01, 2019 5:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.
robertr wrote:
Well that sucks for your buddy, glad he did well. I just backyard shoot, open field, no problem if it fails I will just fix any problems, I have had this rifle for almost 20 years, I know it pretty well.. I do like how the gun just has backward movement when fired , no spring torque at all.
Would you happen to know how long the bearing was in his gun before failure?

It was less than one season, so under 1000 shots in all likelihood.

My buddy has now had his gun for 24 years. I have one identical to it, that was new at the same time, but I have only had mine for about 13 years. We both could tune our TX guns with blindfolds on. Great gun to work on and new innovations come out often. If you ever get a chance to pick one up, especially a Mk2 version, treat yourself.
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