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Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.
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Author:  clarky [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.

I agree that you should experiment. Thats what our sport is about and we should not stifle such, or we will never advance.
Its simply my own experiments saw absolutely zero difference between using one versus a delrin guide with steel thrust ring...
The main area of grumble i have is when people offer tuning kits but use materials which are the same. Delrin on Delrin...or steel on steel always picks up and galls on each other.
It must be a delrin washer on a steel guide and vice versa..

rsterne....not sure about PTFE washer for this purpose....dont forget PTFE deforms to a fit...being more ideal for piston seals...but a deforming thruster probably not ideal..
Coefficient of friction similar to delrin and delrin resistant to lubes...
Go with Delrin and stainless for your thrusters..

Thanks for the Thrust bearing experiment and ill be interested to see how it holds up.

Author:  clarky [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.

This works beautifully

Attachments:
IMG_0187.JPG
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Author:  robertr [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 3:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.

Clarky is there a bearing in there? You need to make your pics bigger, hard to tell what I am supposed to be looking at. I have tried all the suggested anti-spring torque techniques described in this thread by other's and have found the thrust bearing to work the best out of all of them, remember I am using a Magnum springer for this test. Results might be negligible in a lower powered rifle with a shorter spring, spring length will be a factor. A bearing will always have less resistance than a bushing used in the same application but that is just my opinion.
The question is why does it work in my rifle and why not in other's, I am leaning towards user error. Only time will tell if this is the case.

Author:  Mac [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 4:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.

robertr wrote:
The question is why does it work in my rifle and why not in other's, I am leaning towards user error. Only time will tell if this is the case.


It always works until it doesn't.

Wait!!!!

Author:  robertr [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.

Mac wrote:
robertr wrote:
The question is why does it work in my rifle and why not in other's, I am leaning towards user error. Only time will tell if this is the case.


It always works until it doesn't.

Wait!!!!

Well that was helpful, you wait long enough everything will fail.

Author:  pelsby [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 5:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.

There will be no signs of wear . Bearings are made of hardened steel so they do not wear as fast as unhardened steel . It is a CATASTROPHIC event when it fails . You will find shattered , sharp broken fragments of bearing throughout the engine room of your gun . If you catch it immediately after it breaks you will be ok . If you cock your gun even just once after it breaks you could gall and damage the internals of your gun . Many people have tried to warn you of this . Please keep us informed and up to date with pics . Good luck with your experiment .

Author:  robertr [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.

pelsby wrote:
There will be no signs of wear . Bearings are made of hardened steel so they do not wear as fast as unhardened steel . It is a CATASTROPHIC event when it fails . You will find shattered , sharp broken fragments of bearing throughout the engine room of your gun . If you catch it immediately after it breaks you will be ok . If you cock your gun even just once after it breaks you could gall and damage the internals of your gun . Many people have tried to warn you of this . Please keep us informed and up to date with pics . Good luck with your experiment .

No problem man if she blows she blows, then I will have some good pics to post for you guys.

Author:  robertr [ Sun Feb 10, 2019 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.

I will leave you with a couple pics, roughly 1000 rounds through the barrel since mod, new tin opened. Time to get the pcp stuff checked and ready for spring.
Click on the pic for a better view.

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Spin Zone  new tin 001 (800x534).jpg
Spin Zone new tin 001 (800x534).jpg [ 511.02 KiB | Viewed 1429 times ]

Author:  clarky [ Mon Feb 11, 2019 1:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.

robertr wrote:
Clarky is there a bearing in there? You need to make your pics bigger, hard to tell what I am supposed to be looking at. I have tried all the suggested anti-spring torque techniques described in this thread by other's and have found the thrust bearing to work the best out of all of them, remember I am using a Magnum springer for this test. Results might be negligible in a lower powered rifle with a shorter spring, spring length will be a factor. A bearing will always have less resistance than a bushing used in the same application but that is just my opinion.
The question is why does it work in my rifle and why not in other's, I am leaning towards user error. Only time will tell if this is the case.


Those internals are of a Prosport...so very much a Magnum rifle but no bearings inside.
Its a simple Delrin guide rod with a hardened steel slip ring.
If you run the math, the combination slightly beats Delrin on Delrin and with a bit of Napier gun grease on the guide base, it will remove all the torque we need to worry about...without the potential harm to te gun...
The risk of damage to your gun (at any point when you are not expecting it and probably while out in the field) just isnt worth it when we couldnt spit on the difference..

Author:  robertr [ Mon Feb 11, 2019 3:03 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.

Just kidding about the bearing Clarky.

Author:  clarky [ Mon Feb 11, 2019 5:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.

robertr wrote:
Just kidding about the bearing Clarky.


Thats ok buddy....we need people prepared to try things and my stance merely one of me not wanting you to spoil your gun..
Dont forget we need to match what we do at the receiver of our gun with similar at the bottom of the piston ...so i put a slip washer down in there too..or small sleeve.

Author:  cwild1971 [ Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.

Robert. Thanks for washers and bearings. No difference before and after for speed. Shooting D350 with 18.13 .22 JSBs at 810fps. About 50 shots into. Gun is a little rougher, need to pull apart and see where I removed grease. With no speed difference, I'm leaning towards a non-mechanical fix, nothing to fail.

Sent from my LG-H873 using Tapatalk

Author:  cwild1971 [ Tue Feb 12, 2019 5:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.

Still going to give bearing a try. All guns I own shoot have diana 28mm seals anyways.

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Author:  robertr [ Tue Feb 12, 2019 9:28 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.

Speed increase was not the reason for the mod, spring torque elimination was the goal.
Have fun experimenting but as I am sure you have read, keep an eye and ear on the bearing.

Author:  cwild1971 [ Wed Feb 13, 2019 8:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Spin Zone, thrust bearing mod for springer.

Speed is the only thing I could actually measure that isn't feel related. If looking for speed, I'll shoot Grizzly or CHP 14.?? which are at 900fps. When it's nicer I'll test accuracy outside. Never had great luck with this gun as it was for accuracy.

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